Backroom Changes (Merged Threads)

[Ace Face]

BFC Exec

Is the BFC Exec still in existence?

Can anybody from BU confirm?

I have emailed to [email protected].

 

[Banana]

There is a news item on the BU web site which states more or less then same as is on the BFC web site with the following addition

From: Bees United Web Site
In welcoming the management changes at the Club, the BEES United Chairman, Brian Burgess, said 'The Club has to move forward both on and off the pitch. The new optimism generated by Martin Allen and his football mangement team has to be matched by strengthening the non-football management team and these changes are a step in the right direction.

Given the importance and the urgency of sorting out the long term isues of a new stadium and refinancing the Club's overdraft, I welcome the fact that John McGlashan will be able to spend more time on these rather than on the day to day operational management of the Club.

The extension of Stephen Callen's role as executive finance director also gives us the confidence we need that the Club's precarious financial position will continue to be managed prudently.

 

[abee]

Re: The BU Board

1) Therefore if no, what power does the BU Board actually have?

2) If I was on the BU Board I would have tried everything to block this appointment and would demand greater democracy.

3) Am I missing the whole point of the BU Board?

4) Are they the lemon slicers and ER the driving force behind BFC?

1) Absolutely none

2) And if you could not and realised that for all of the "talking heads" it was just the select few making decisions and announcing them after implementation would you then resign from the BU board in sheer mind numbing frustration?

3) No. It is and always has been just a rubber stamp intended to put a gloss on things and to give the impression of a fans run club to the "smelly socks" brigade whose job is to carry on chucking money into buckets and organising "Walk to Timbuktu" initiatives.

4) Now you're getting there Bish..........trebles all round

 

[Nigel Brooks]

My BU membrship card is heading back to GP in the post. Thanks chaps, it had all the illusion of being fun while it lasted.

 

[abee]

My BU membrship card is heading back to GP in the post. Thanks chaps, it had all the illusion of being fun while it lasted.

I have done the same Nigel.

Standing order cancelled and cheque book closed with immediate effect.

My involvement will be restricted to just watching the footy. I have no intention of providing any further support to a bust company owned by a bloke who hates us (see Noades Crystal Palace thread) but is officially excused as "just having picked up the pieces left by David Webb"; chaired by Eddie Rogers who was up to his eyeballs in the financial mismanagement that got us into the mess in the first place and now with the day to day affairs being run by another Noades lickspittle who we were lucky enough to "poach" from Charlton Athletic FC. Yeah right!!! Perhaps Bees United would care to post Mr Roy King's c.v. on their website together with the actual dates of his directorship at Charlton.

 

[Bigbee]

I am cancelling the Bee Green and trampoline fund raising and other ideas which were in the pipeline .


How can the BU members let this happen ?

BU ,Bees Un-united

 

[Waterlooville Bee]

Pretty sick of all this.

This is a real kick in the teeth after the all the euphoria and excitement created since MA's arrival.
To have this idiot promoted to a position whereby he is now effectively handling the everyday running of the Club is frankly a sick joke.
He failed miserably in his previous role so why should we any confidence in him not making a dogs dinner of this new role?

Completely fed up and now wondering why bother keeping up a standing order just to spoon feed cash to another of Noades' tea-boys.

Great move Brentford.

 

[Luton Bee]

Despite my numerous threats to do so, I still have my standing order to BU at the moment. What pains me is taht certain people seem to think they have no need to answer to the other board members let alone the rank and file membership.

We must stick together through this somehow, but someone from BU has got to stick their haed above the parapet and give us some answers and assurances and this needs to happen right now.

 

[Russell]

Ok, this is a serious and non-piss taking post.

There is 1 person on here who I have generally disagreed with over the last 18 months or so. I think I'm right in my opinion and he thinks he's right in his. So when I see Bish asking the sort of questions and posting the sort of statements I've seen today, I know we're in the sh*t. Bish more than anyone on the GPG has carried the BU standard and fought his corner with honour. He's got off his arse and done things to promote BU and support the club and for that I respect the man. He looks like he feels well and truly shafted by this change and I don't blame him.

So when Bish and for that matter Nigel Brooks, who I've never met but have the utmost respect for, stop shaking buckets for The Cause, the end must surely be nigh. These 2 guys must be really fecked off tonight.

Those responsible should hang their heads in shame.

 

[abee]

The more that I read the official statement the more confusing it all seems. John Mac is now "devoting his time" to Lionel Road issues so where exactly does that leave Doug White. Who is leading the Lionel Road drive now?? We were told a short while ago (I can't remember by whom exactly possibly thefatcd) that Doug was spending three days a week of his time on Lionel Road. Now if Doug is still doing that and John Mac is devoting his time to Lionel Road that is eight man days a week which seems incredible to me. Also there is no mention of the anticipated improvements to Griffin Park and we were told a few months back that by next February we wouldn't recognize dear old GP. I wasn't certain at the time whether that meant because of the Doug White improvements or that Noades would finally get his way and it would be underneath a zillion tons of cement.
I also take it that Roy King would have received some sort of salary uplift and it certainly seems as if Stephen Callen is now going onto the payroll. I also assume that John Mac is drawing the same salary for now doing what was Doug White's job and which was being done without compensation.

I suggest therefore that we be told exactly what was wrong with the previous arrangement and organization. I have been very critical in the past of the way that the affairs of BFC were being run but we have all read the reassuring Bees United statements that they were one hundred per cent happy with everything and behind the BU reps on the BFC board. Everybody was doing a great job and there was absolutely no reason to change anything. Now John Mac who we were assured was doing a top notch job as de facto CEO suddenly transfers to progress Lionel Road and work on financing for the new stadium and re-financing for Griffin Park. This smacks of hammering a square peg into a round hole and not even John Mac has claimed that he has experience with financing or sitting around the table with bankers and potential investors.

More questions than answers.

 

[CJC]

More over-excitement. Not that I would want Roy King in such a position, but I can see where they're coming from. It's way too hasty to declare the end of the world as we know it, we will only know if the move is a failure when we all have experienced a few matches next season.

By putting Jon in a role that will be difficult to publicise you divert the flak that he got because of the operational failures of the club, and his lack of PR. Also this role is better suited to his abilities I feel. Besides I would guess that on here at least Jon has got more criticism than Roy King has over the last season so who is the worse?

The promotion of Roy King could be a tactic to remove him from the areas where his responsibility has caused discontent over the past couple of seasons, putting more competent people in below him. Any operational failures can now be blamed on Roy King who isn't Bees United, a scapegoat essentially. The issue of contracts also arises, when does his end? If it's in December or something then the move could be a long-term strategy and he's going anyway perhaps? Naturally this is all in hope.

I don't agree with the appointment of King though, he didn't do too well in his former position and he's too linked in with the Noades era. I am suprised that something that will piss of a lot of people has been done like this though.

We must stick together through this somehow, but someone from BU has got to stick their head above the parapet and give us some answers and assurances and this needs to happen right now.

I agree, to get too excited now would be wrong. To the majority of fans Roy King will mean nothing, I barely know of him either. If Bees United can sufficiently justify the move I will be happy enough, even if I don't think they're making the right decision at least there will be an open reply to concerns. I'd be worried if nothing has been prepared in response to what was always going to be received with annoyance by some fans. Remember we can always vote people out, elections in November?

 

[CJC]

Now if Doug is still doing that and John Mac is devoting his time to Lionel Road that is eight man days a week which seems incredible to me.

Yes that is incredible, didn't think of that. Perhaps things are finally moving forward or have become so critical that extra work would be needed to save the project, or we're looking at other sites? There has to be a justification for that.

I suggest therefore that we be told exactly what was wrong with the previous arrangement and organization.

To hazard a guess, Jon Mac wasn't comfortable in his role, and Roy King assuming he was a Director at Charlton had people to do things for him and when he had to do stuff himself instead of orchestrating others he couldn't do it? Also there was too much criticism directed at BU representatives, nice bit of self-preservation for BU there.

More questions than answers.

During the Euro Championships too. Usual day at Brentford FC.

Should be interesting when people respond.

 

[Carri Bee Un]

So when Bish and for that matter Nigel Brooks, who I've never met but have the utmost respect for, stop shaking buckets for The Cause, the end must surely be nigh. These 2 guys must be really fecked off tonight.

Those responsible should hang their heads in shame.

Indeed.

As someone who gets most of their bees information from this site the fact that Mr Ace Face is so pissed off is extremely unnerving.

 

[CJC]

As someone who gets most of their bees information from this site the fact that Mr Ace Face is so pissed off is extremely unnerving.

Don't forget most people get pissed off with most things that BFC do. Part of the fun of supporting Brentford is the annual or bi-annual forecourt confrontation.

 

[Carri Bee Un]

Don't forget most people get pissed off with most things that BFC do. Part of the fun of supporting Brentford is the annual or bi-annual forecourt confrontation.

I know

I've been away so long the last person I got to shout abuse at was Webb

Coming back in August for a bit, so hopefully I'll get some football and heckling in.

 

[CJC]

I'm sure things will blow over, the playing side will dictate our crowds and revenue more than Roy King not being able to handle a couple hundred Wednesday fans or the number of people allowed in the ground. Doesn't mean I'm anywhere near happy he's been appointed.

 

[abee]

1) The promotion of Roy King could be a tactic to remove him from the areas where his responsibility has caused discontent over the past couple of seasons, putting more competent people in below him.

2) Any operational failures can now be blamed on Roy King who isn't Bees United, a scapegoat essentially. The issue of contracts also arises, when does his end? If it's in December or something then the move could be a long-term strategy and he's going anyway perhaps? Naturally this is all in hope.

3) I don't agree with the appointment of King though, he didn't do too well in his former position and he's too linked in with the Noades era. I am suprised that something that will piss of a lot of people has been done like this though.

1) Er....so we give King a salary increase and a promotion. We publicise on the official web site what a great job he has been doing through yet another ill advised statement from a "green as grass" chairman and you then reckon that we can get rid of him for not doing a good job in December. Yeah right!!! If King hasn't locked up a sweetheart deal for himself with a minimum three/six month termination date then my name's not Gary Hargraves. King also still has responsibility for the stadium operations and he clearly has had so much spare time on his hands that he can now do most of John Mac's current work (presumably in his lunch break). Or are you suggesting that in addition to increasing King's salary and paying Stephen Callen King is gonna bring in more staff to do what he was doing in the first place...........

2) He's already the Operational Manager and hasn't been "blamed" for anything so far other than by Greenholme Bee who assured us that King together with Hargraves shared responsibility for the comps screw ups. Any perceived operational failures have been ignored by the BFC board and King rewarded with a promotion to General Manager... a job which was being done by John Mac to the total satisfaction of the Bees United committee.

3) Make up your mind. Either you are okay with King being the General Manager of BFC or you are not. If you are suggesting that his appointment would enable Bees United to plead "not guilty" for any resulting shambles then I would join issue with you on this as BU is still (supposedly) responsible for the management of the club.

 

[Waterlooville Bee]

Can someone please confirm that if (and its a big IF) BU are supposedly, as abee puts it, running the Club then presumably Kings appointment was sanctioned by BU?

 

[FarnhamBee]

Not sure that I (like many others) fully understand the full implications of the recent announcements.

At the Fans Forum held on May 12th Martin Allen stated that he intended that another forum would be held prior to next season.

Seems to me that holding that forum as soon as poss would be a wise move...

...so I guess that it's pretty unlikely to happen then

Ho hum...

 

[Russell]

So who's YOUR choice for the new encumbent of the Stadium Manager's position now it's vacant? My money's on Gary H doing a prodigal's return

 

[CJC]

1) Er....so we give King a salary increase and a promotion. We publicise what a great job he has been doing on the web site through another ill advised statement from a "green as grass" chairman and you then reckon that we can get rid of him for not doing a good job in December. Yeah right!!! If King hasn't locked up a sweetheart deal for himself with a minimum three/six month termination date then my name's not Gary Hargraves. King also still has responsibility for the stadium operations and he clearly has had so much spare time on his hands that he can now do most of John Mac's current work (presumably in his lunch break). Or are you suggesting that in addition to increasing King's salary and paying Stephen Callen King is gonna bring in more staff to do what he was doing in the first place...........

I was having a guess abee as to his contract. Also I am only guessing as to strategy, if you have an incompetent member of staff you cannot remove in a key position it could save money to give him a nice title and let his contract run and let more competent people do the same thing already in the organisation for the same cash. You're guessing that King is getting paid more for his new position as well. I don't know what Stephen would do, but if I thought having people in to run matchday facilities properly would make a difference greater than their wages then I'd employ them.

2) He's already the Operational Manager and hasn't been "blamed" for anything so far other than by Greenholme Bee who assured us that King together with Hargraves shared responsibility for the comps screw ups. Any perceived operational failures have been ignored by the BFC board and King rewarded with a promotion to General Manager... a job which was being done by John Mac to the total satisfaction of the Bees United committee.

This is all taken at face value though, relying on the information provided by official sources whose job is to promote the club to the masses isn't the best thing to do. Also there has been massive criticism on here regarding King, I haven't seen enough to comment on that but it is possible that if operational criticisms arise it would be better to put them on an employee. I mean my action in this situation would amount to constructive dismissal, but luckily I'm not running the club yet.

3) Make up your mind. Either you are okay with King being the General Manager of BFC or you are not. If you are suggesting that his appointment would enable Bees United to plead "not guilty" for any resulting shambles then I would join issue with you on this as BU is still (supposedly) responsible for the management of the club.

I'm not OK with it but what can you do? I object to someone from the Noades era who hasn't had a good track-record being given this kind of position. However I don't think his shortcomings make too much of a difference to our revenue as most fans will decide to come depending on how the team is doing.

I know that if it was me making the decision the thought that we could blame it all on Roy King would have crossed my mind. Although I dislike your interpretation abee that everything I think is the action the people on the board would take.

 

[CJC]

So who's YOUR choice for the new encumbent of the Stadium Manager's position now it's vacant? My money's on Gary H doing a prodigal's return

Now King is General Manager, that position would encompass Stadium Manager also surely? Will people not be allocated aspects of King's former position with him co-ordinating them?

 

[abee]

Can someone please confirm that if (and its a big IF) BU are supposedly, as abee puts it, running the Club then presumably Kings appointment was sanctioned by BU?

Look we now have a situation where supposedly Bees United is responsible for the day to day management of BFC under an agreement thrashed out with Altonwood but a non-Bees United appointee is now the General Manager responsible for all day to day issues except finance. (I take it from the official statement that the accounting functions fall under King and finance under Stephen Callen).

So step forward PJ and Stedders please and tell us........was this discussed at BU committee level before the announcement and with (at least) a majority vote in favour OR was it deemed so unimportant that the decision was taken arbitrarily by our non-executive chairman Mr Eddie Rogers (sorry that should read "taken with the unanimous approval of the BFC full board") and the BU appointees on the BFC board didn't bother to tell the full BU committee in advance.

 

[CJC]

Can someone please confirm that if (and its a big IF) BU are supposedly, as abee puts it, running the Club then presumably Kings appointment was sanctioned by BU?

Bees United have never run the club in the sense that most people would perceive as running the club, they don't act as the Board of BFC in any sense. Bees United representatives have to an extent key positions at the club (well Stephen does).

I don't think the BU board would have sanctioned the appointment without some very good justification. Can they even sanction stuff like that? See if everyone doubles their standing orders we can buy the club, clear the debt and re-arrange things rofl rofl

 

[CJC]

So step forward PJ and Stedders please and tell us........

Shall be interesting.

I don't get the idea of Eddie Rogers as some Don Corleone figure, pulling the strings. Surely he has a proper job, and what gain would he have from controlling the club for Noades? I've not seen any solid evidence to support the idea that he has control of anything.

 

[TOMOGP]

Shall be interesting.

I don't get the idea of Eddie Rogers as some Don Corleone figure, pulling the strings. Surely he has a proper job, and what gain would he have from controlling the club for Noades? I've not seen any solid evidence to support the idea that he has control of anything.

CJC I think you are missing the whole point

1Rogers is a good guy he puts in £100k then gets its secured
Rogers alledgedly phoned Downs to sack him and alledgedly appointed King

2There has been plenty of threads on here complaining about BFC management (sic) and general agreement is that we needed a good experienced what do you call it CEO /general manager

So they appoint a man who has had no experience of "management" other than as Stadium management (alledgedly) to that position

3 Compare RK performance as stadium manager with his predecessor when 80% of the stewards were employed by the club, today some 80% are employed through Goldrange each one costing what £20/25 a time more.
How much is that over a season
We are all agreed we are in the entertainment sector how many seats were covered in bird sh*t before when I have seen his predecessor cleaning them herself, with RK its the cleaners fault he will tell them over last season the sh*t just got higher

4 anytime the crowd gos over 6k there is a problem and where was RK not to be seen, with him its always the Bees fans who cause the trouble

I am sorry I just cannot see any justification whatsoever for the promotion, any more than John Mac being a nice guy and Bees through and through made him the right man for the job

 

[CJC]

1. I don't know whether getting the Chairman to sack people is common practice so can't comment on that, the issue seems to be that it erodes the power of BU representatives. I can't say I'm happy with it but what do I know.

2. From reading the site statement 'general management' seems to mean control over the office and the club shop and the stadium. I'm not happy with King's appointment but can see reasons for the decision. I don't think we can afford experienced professionals.

3. I agree with you there, that's why I think the reshuffle could be to remove him from failing in this area. I can't justify his appointment performance-wise. I am even more suprised that he would be appointed in full knowledge of a fans backlash, well by the people who know about him anyway. Hence my view that there could be alterior motives at work. I can't see how at face value he is a positive appointment.

I think the best justification for most appointments at the club are cost.

 

[TOMOGP]

Cost again the very reason that we could not get rid Of WALLY
it is so simple
Time and time again a good CEO would return his salary plus, in fact a good Ceo would be on bonus get you salary and on costs in and you will then get say 1 2 3 4 or even 10% of the increase in additional income

We cannot afford not to, but after the announcement when even Nigel and Ace feel beaten and what do I know?

 

[WarrenBee]

Re: Waiting patiently

Owned by the fans, run by the fans? MY AR$E

Spot on.

 

[Edmundo]

From the statement on the BU site
John will continue to act as the board liaison point for Martin Allen and oversee the club's external relations.

(My emphasis)

About time someone decided to do this - I presume that public relations is part of external relations. I'm glad that John Mac has finally seen the light that this is something that matters. As for King, I'm speechless.

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

Re: Waiting patiently

So we have:
A board
An Executive Committee
A general manager
A non executive chairman (who fires the team manager)

Just who does run the club?

As Bee H might say...the inmates are running the asylum !!!!!

 

[CJC]

As for King, I'm speechless.

Yes I couldn't have seen that coming in a million years either.

Cost again the very reason that we could not get rid Of WALLY
it is so simple
Time and time again a good CEO would return his salary plus, in fact a good Ceo would be on bonus get you salary and on costs in and you will then get say 1 2 3 4 or even 10% of the increase in additional income

We cannot afford not to, but after the announcement when even Nigel and Ace feel beaten and what do I know?

It's a totally different situation in my view. I think the off-pitch management is secondary to on-field success at the moment as this is what will get the revenue in. Off the field we have achieved break-even and that's the best I can see us achieving currently. I can't see there's much a competent CEO could work with to increase turnover. Perhaps if they improve GP with the football trust money. Also as abee pointed out it's likely the contracts of a lot of noades-era people are designed to screw the club badly. I don't want King there, but I don't see the benefit of spending further money on off-field staff. I'll be pissed off more if as abee suggests King gets a salary increase.

 

[CJC]

Actually **** this, I give up trying to justify the motives of the football club. I really cannot see any motive for making such an obviously unpopular and plainly odd decision that doesn't involve advanced conspiracy theories created by myself. However I refuse to be rash and remove any support from BU or the BU representatives without seeing the results of their decisions.

Just be thankful we don't support a boring club, this will keep people going through until the pre-season friendlies.

 

[chippendale]

(My emphasis)

About time someone decided to do this - I presume that public relations is part of external relations. I'm glad that John Mac has finally seen the light that this is something that matters. As for King, I'm speechless.

The only problem is John Ma'c PR skills haven't been up to much have they.

It will be interesting to se how much momey gets pulled from both BFC and BU by this stupid appointment.

 

[abee]

Perhaps Bees United would care to post Mr Roy King's c.v. on their website together with the actual dates of his directorship at Charlton.

We have at least two well known members of the Bees United board regularly visiting the GPG.

So Stedders and PJ I am asking you please to read the official statement (which is effectively in the name of both of you plus the other members of the BU board) regarding King on the Bees United web site very carefully and then respond to the above request. I repeat............Roy King is now General Manager at BFC and as a supporter and shareholder I object strongly to this appointment. It is reasonable that King be subject to scrutiny as he is now in overall charge of virtually all issues at Griffin Park (including I take it the accounting functions as Stephen Callen looks after financing which is entirely different).

So as the appointment met with the unbridled enthusiasm of Brian Burgess and Bees United may we see King's c.v.please so that abee at least may review the qualities that were so attractive to the boards of BFC and BU together with the dates of his Charlton FC directorship and his duties as a Charlton director. The statements on both the BFC and BU web sites brought King's Charlton employment and directorship into play and presented it as a clear "plus" in King's candidacy for promotion to BFC General Manager so it is reasonable that his performance in that role and the reasons for his leaving Charlton be examined.

Now is that fair enough.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

About time someone decided to do this - I presume that public relations is part of external relations. I'm glad that John Mac has finally seen the light that this is something that matters.

Well Ed, we are hardly off to a promising start are we?

Yet again news 'leaks and creeps' out of the club, and yes, if John was if any way effective in this particular area (either new or former role) it would have been released as news rather than escaped as a rumour.

I'm afraid that this latest debacle, for me, shatters any vestigal illusion that BU are now any more than, in effect, a fund-raising machine for an Altonwood subsidiary.

Views will, as ever, be polarised, with the majority of fans simply unaware/ uncaring/ critical of the keyboard warriors (delete as appropritate).

I do get upset when I see the efforts that were/are being made by PJ and others of his ilk.

Much if anything would not have been achieved without those who 'did their bit' be it shaking buckets, organising gigs, walking, riding bikes etc.

However, the focus on LR once again diverts us from the real need to exercise the option in eleven months time or have the board got some master plan that will creep/escape to a wider audience nearer the time? I don't know, and I have severe doubts that they do.

 

[nocoat]

I have come to the conclusion that CJC isn't him all the time, but sometimes it is actually his dad (the old fella that rattles the buckets and does winston churchill type speeches.. good man by the way )... doesnt matter that much but why not get your own username? Would you like to confirm/deny this, just for my own curiosity please?

 

[abee]

Yet again news 'leaks and creeps' out of the club, and yes, if John was if any way effective in this particular area (either new or former role) it would have been released as news rather than escaped as a rumour.

I rather assumed that it was rushed out when the "great and the good" learned that both Bee H and Brickie Chap were out of the country. lol

I have been in touch with Bee H and his actual words were "$£**&%?@@z**$£"

This was followed by something about "Loan Notes" (I think) and someone's head on a platter.........He is back late Monday afternoon so we can all relax until then and no doubt over the week-end Bee H will have mellowed and realised that this appointment was taken for the benefit of Brentford Football Club and that in Roy King we have the finest General Manager possible whose career has been such that he caught the attention of Mr Ron Noades as definitely a man to be watched (no sorry I'll rephrase that) as a man whose philosophy towards the supporter in a customer orientated business was perfectly in tune with Noades and who like Noades never ever made a mistake as it was always someone else's fault and indeed we were incredibly lucky to have persuaded him to leave Charlton FC for the backwaters of Brentford and he enjoys the confidence of Altonwood (sorry that should read Bees United) who know that .............(continues for 63 pages)

 

[timl]

What are the current priorities for BFC survival?

And therefore, what issues should BU be concentrating on?

Surely the answers to both questions are the following:

1. The Altonwood Option that comes up in 11 months
2. A new stadium that is funded, built and run as a community asset, without the intervention of any wealthy individual who has his/her own agenda and (possibly, most importantly) with BFC as the prime user.

Beggars can’t be choosers. RK may or may not be up to the job. The method of his appointment may or may not be open and fair. Whatever the truth or reasoning involved ….. it won’t really matter if it all goes tits up in 11 months time ….. will it?

BU conducted a survey at the end of the season. It would appear that the published results of that survey have been taken to heart.

BU needs support, not brickbats ….. however well-meant or reasoned.

That’s not to say that BU and the supporter directors haven’t made mistakes. The lack of wide-ranging business experience is glaringly obvious (sometimes ‘charmingly’ so); whatever the PR issued by BFC and BU says

But, we should remember why the BU committee and supporter directors have got involved; particularly the differences between what motivates them when compared to the alternatives. Our fellow supporters have not got involved to feather their own nests (whatever the salary levels we can assume JM is not being paid on the same scale as was Noades when he was Chairman/Team Manager, or even at the £300 per hour rate it is rumoured that Altonwood invoiced BFC for, on the rare occasions Ron attended games as Chairman). Most of us realize that neither the BU committee nor the director supporters are involved because of their blinding business acumen! In general terms experienced and clever businessmen/women are motivated by profits and personal gain – nothing wrong in that!

I think people are involved because they want to do their utmost for the survival of BFC. Our fellow supporters also committed themselves to the cause because of the strength and depth of support they received when they set up BU and proposed a supporters run club. If this support (which includes financial support) dissolves – where is the motivation to continue?

The PR situation continues to be pretty dire – everyone can surely see that; the official web site ‘story’ about RK’s appointment raises more questions than it answers (which is not unusual for ‘stories’ on the official web site). But again, will this make any difference in 11 months time? Does it really matter who manages the day-to-day affairs at the Club? Probably not, as long as a tight rein is kept on any spending. If RK does a bad job (or carries on where he appears to have left off as Stadium Manager), so what? It will be a complete irrelevance this time next year, if the key priorities are not resolved in BFC’s (and BU’s) favour. Does it really matter how the non-football affairs of the club are run? The only real priority has to be to do the minimum necessary for the lowest possible cost. It’s an accountant’s game, not a management issue (speaking as an accountant, that is).

Those who have publicly withdrawn their support ….. have you already decided what the outcome is going to be next May? Don’t forget that Altonwood has managed to increase the value of its asset – Griffin Park – at no apparent cash cost to itself (other than in perhaps more esoteric accounting terms). This business coup has been dressed up as giving the supporters an opportunity to take over the club. In purely business terms it has to be seen as a quite brilliant strategy by Altonwood! Giving up now (or constantly attacking those involved) must surely only help make the Altonwood strategy come to fruition.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Those who have publicly withdrawn their support ….. have you already decided what the outcome is going to be next May? Don’t forget that Altonwood has managed to increase the value of its asset – Griffin Park – at no apparent cash cost to itself (other than in perhaps more esoteric accounting terms). This business coup has been dressed up as giving the supporters an opportunity to take over the club. In purely business terms it has to be seen as a quite brilliant strategy by Altonwood! Giving up now (or constantly attacking those involved) must surely only help make the Altonwood strategy come to fruition.

Next May was a foregone conclusion in terms of us being in a position to exercise the option from the moment that those who could have chosen to play hardball over the terms of the option and the amount to be repaid chose instead to roll over like playful puppies.

The Altonwood 'strategy' as you call it has been helped along the way by a continued refusal/ choice not to confront the issue.

The continued involvement of those who got us into this position is a PR disaster and something that many have been both wary of and fighting against since the outset.

I have personally chosen to leave BU because the facade that it will either make one iota of difference to the 'end game' or actually brings any influence to bare over the day to day running of the club has been shattered by the latest moves.

The only glimmer of hope is that Ron REALLY wants to become involved again with an ego-massaging position with Crystal palace now that they are in the Premiership. Do I however hold out any hope of this actually benefitting us? Realistically, I would not count on it.

 

[timl]

Next May was a foregone conclusion in terms of us being in a position to exercise the option from the moment that those who could have chosen to play hardball over the terms of the option and the amount to be repaid chose instead to roll over like playful puppies.

Do you know this for a fact?

The Altonwood 'strategy' as you call it has been helped along the way by a continued refusal/ choice not to confront the issue.

Again .... are you sure about this? I was under the impression (albeit via BFC/BU PR) that there are/have been ongoing talks.

The continued involvement of those who got us into this position is a PR disaster and something that many have been both wary of and fighting against since the outset.

I think its a bit late to change the horse now ..... unless there are suitable volunteers available. If more suitable people put themselves forward what's to say JM & Co would not stand aside?

I have personally chosen to leave BU because the facade that it will either make one iota of difference to the 'end game' or actually brings any influence to bare over the day to day running of the club has been shattered by the latest moves.

I have no doubt that this is a genuine response .... but I hope it is not an over-reaction. I think it is the 'end-game' that matters, not the day-to-day running of the club, and continued involvement in BU by people such as yourself will at this stage affect the end-game far more than the day-to-day affairs at BFC.

The only glimmer of hope is that Ron REALLY wants to become involved again with an ego-massaging position with Crystal palace now that they are in the Premiership. Do I however hold out any hope of this actually benefitting us? Realistically, I would not count on it.

Like you I really don't see Palace as being relevant. BFC has become a business project for Altonwood. The Noades ego and his love affair with Palace will not have any bearing on BFC - other than that he will not want to be seen to lose out to a bunch of 'amateurs' (ie BFC supporters).

 

[larrysigny]

Good posts timl. Glad to have a real supporter on board.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

OK let's deal with these one by one.

Debt
Was accepted 'nem com' without negotiation and we have been trying to manage an increasing burden ever since. Had we negotiated then commercial finaning and a full release from Altonwood involvement may have been possible.

Negotiation
There 'may have been talks' but I believe that the Altonwood position with regard to refund of tax benefits speaks volumes about our 'negotiations' in this area.

PR
To my certain knowledge PR and marketing advice from fans who are professionals in these areas was offered to the club almost twelve months ago. The offers were not even acknowledged. As John Mac was party to the offers who knows why he chose to maintain the status quo?

End game
This looms closer than some may choose to believe. We need to have finance in place to exercise the option in May 2005 at the same time maintaining a prudent day-to-day operation to ensure both that current debt levels do not increase and that the bills can be paid. People are alienated by the day to day cock-ups not because of failure to move towards Lionel Road or whatever panacea for all ills some may believe exists.

Crystal Palace
I only mention this beacuse of the rules preventing involvement in two league clubs. Which would Ron choose (assuming he has to make the choice)?

 

[timl]

I don't think we want to go down the road of disputing fundamentals ..... again.

The 'real deal' seems quite clear and it will reach completion by next May at the latest.

Withdrawing support from BU won't help at this stage - at least in my view. Others may think differently; they obviously do and their views should be respected.

I have always been of the opinion that Noades would not let BFC off the hook ..... unless we make it pay for him to do so.

 

[Baffled]

Why do I have the feeling that I've seen this scenario before? Then it was with a failed businessman and total secondhand salesman called Dave Webb. We were all shafted in no time at all.
I think BU, BIAS and anybody else who cares should be watching every move from now on. There's dodgy dealings in the air.

 

[abee]

1) JM is not being paid on the same scale as was Noades when he was Chairman/Team Manager, or even at the £300 per hour rate it is rumoured that Altonwood invoiced BFC for, on the rare occasions Ron attended games as Chairman).


2) In purely business terms it has to be seen as a quite brilliant strategy by Altonwood! Giving up now (or constantly attacking those involved) must surely only help make the Altonwood strategy come to fruition.

1) I had never heard this story before...........gobsmacked if true

2) Exactly. The whole option was loaded in Altonwood's favour whilst at the time BFC had run out of money and could not even cover the March 2003 wages without rushing Stephen Callen and Andrew Wainwright onto the BFC board in exchange for Bees United's cheque for £100k.............

When you look at the position that Noades is in now compared with the sh*tty hand he was holding in March 2003 it makes you weep.

 

[abee]

Good posts timl. Glad to have a real supporter on board.

Larry this is a pretty insulting post.

I assume that I am included in your list of not being a "real supporter" but I take it you are also embracing Bish, Nigel Brooks and the others who have posted on this thread and are uneasy with the arbitrary way that Roy King has been elevated within the hierarchy. A definition of a "real supporter" is not necessarily one who accepts each and every management decision blindly. Using that as a yardstick then the BIAS and original Bees United team would not be "real supporters" as they did not accept decisions that were made by Noades and Hargraves and endorsed by the non- executive directors including Rogers.

I'm not starting up with you again but if the suggestion that each and every one of us who oppose the Roy King promotion is not a "real supporter" then that is unworthy of you. Bish feels "betrayed" and Nigel Brooks has turned in his BU card. That is their right and they are too good to be swept up in your categorization of what a "real supporter" should be.

I look forward to you hosing Roy King down with treacle and producing your usual "cutting edge" interview with him in the first programme of the new season.

 

[abee]

Crystal Palace
I only mention this beacuse of the rules preventing involvement in two league clubs. Which would Ron choose (assuming he has to make the choice)?

I imagine Nigel that if Noades ever gets serious again about Crystal Palace then notwithstanding any exclusive "option" that Bees United believes that it holds Noades will just make another arrangement with his mate "Deadly" Doug Miller and BFC will suddenly belong to Mardonmain who in turn will undertake to honour the options granted by Altonwood to Bees United.

If I remember correctly when it suited Noades for tax purposes we suddenly found out that Griffin Park Stadium Ltd was a part of the Mardonmain group and that Miller was back in the frame for a period.

It would probably take Waddington five minutes (if he stopped for a cup of coffee) to bust the option.........

 

[larrysigny]

That's the trouble abee - everyone is ASSUMING things, not dealing in facts. Has anyopne rung Jon Mac, Brian Burgess or even Roy King to get those facts?

 

[abee]

That's the trouble abee - everyone is ASSUMING things, not dealing in facts. Has anyopne rung Jon Mac, Brian Burgess or even Roy King to get those facts?

What are we assuming exactly Larry. We are commenting on an official statement on the BFC web site and which is copied on the BU website with an added ringing endorsement of King's appointment by Brian Burgess (presumably on behalf of the BU committee although he is careful to use the "I".........)

Bish posted a number of very pertinent questions on here yesterday which he had sent to John Mac and Bees United. When he receives his replies I am sure that he will put them on the GPG. My point however is that we can disagree but both still be "real supporters". timl certainly writes very well and made his points in a manner which will make people think but he is not the only "real supporter" on here just because you like what he writes.