David Raya

[jlove]

We certainly all see the movement for the back 5 outfield players he describes but I’m not sure we’d describe it as having Raya intentionally become part of a back four even though he does come out a long way. That’s beyond “sweeper keeper”!

The defensive structure when the 'keeper has the ball has always been 'interesting'. With a back 4, it would become a back 3, with one full back pushing into the wing-back position, or a back 2+, with Raya positioned as the central CB and both full backs pushed into the opposition half.

As a 3-5-2, you see a similar movement, where one of the CB's will move to a full back position (recently Ajer) and Raya plays the central role with Jansson and Pinnock either side, as Raya's interview describes. What's been different this season, especially noted against Liverpool, is that the CB's will go forward, with one of the CB's taking the 6 position, while Raya targets Toney long, allowing a 6 to be available for a knock back or to block a break high if we lose possession.

It's "brave" play but it also allows us to create overloads, which disturbs PL teams that work heavily on their own structures and certainly are not currently expecting us to have periods where we are quick to be offensive on the edge of the final third.

 

[wibs]

Big feature on him in Football Focus this Saturday.

Sneak preview here

Football Focus: Brentford's David Raya discusses Jurgen Klopp's praise - Brentford's Raya on Klopp's praise & role of modern goalkeeper

 

[badgerbee]

So, according to the man himself on The Warmup tonight, this is the song he wants us singing for him:

”David Raya!! David Raya!!
He loves Estrella!!
He loves paella!!
His gloves are f***ing massive!!
1, 2, 3, 4!!!”

To the “Harry Maguire” song tune I guess….??…….

 

[Billy Hunt]

To the “Harry Maguire” song tune I guess….??…….

What tune is the Harry Maguire song?

 

[badgerbee]

What tune is the Harry Maguire song?

"La Bamba"......

 

[BFC1997]

Chelsea only had the one shot on target, which was the goal, so had very little to do.

Was fine in his sweeper keeper duties and claiming the ball from set pieces.

Felt thought that after a week of being bigged up in the press and talked up for a Spain call up, he was a little more risky with his distribution today in front of the cameras?

Generally pulled it off, tbf, but lots more short passes from the back than usual and 1 or 2 occasions where it put us under unnecessary pressure - plus some other near misses.

 

[sonofabee]

Chelsea only had the one shot on target, which was the goal, so had very little to do.

Was fine in his sweeper keeper duties and claiming the ball from set pieces.

Felt thought that after a week of being bigged up in the press and talked up for a Spain call up, he was a little more risky with his distribution today in front of the cameras?

Generally pulled it off, tbf, but lots more short passes from the back than usual and 1 or 2 occasions where it put us under unnecessary pressure - plus some other near misses.

Really?

I thought his distribution was excellent again and while he took risks he found his player every time and unsure how he put us under pressure ?

 

[TW3Bee]

Felt thought that after a week of being bigged up in the press and talked up for a Spain call up, he was a little more risky with his distribution today in front of the cameras?

There was one occasion when he pinged a ball out wide to PJ I think it was that skimmed the head of Lusaka and the whole crowd simmed to gasp all at the same time.

 

[BFC1997]

Really?

I thought his distribution was excellent again and while he took risks he found his player every time and unsure how he put us under pressure ?

It was only a couple of occasions; certainly once in the first half he played one short pass too many and we ended up losing the ball and giving away a cheap free kick near our own box.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Felt thought that after a week of being bigged up in the press and talked up for a Spain call up, he was a little more risky with his distribution today in front of the cameras?

Generally pulled it off, tbf, but lots more short passes from the back than usual and 1 or 2 occasions where it put us under unnecessary pressure - plus some other near misses.

I’d say that’s a load of b***ocks, and a bit of an insult to Raya’s professionalism. ?‍

 

[BFC1997]

I’d say that’s a load of b***ocks, and a bit of an insult to Raya’s professionalism. ?‍

Fair enough. Quite a few of us had the same observation from the West Stand.

As I said, he largely pulled it off, just feel he has been a bit more risk averse in other games so far.

 

[Billy Hunt]

We take risks
We are brave
Raya played some excellent passes, yesterday, when his options were limited ?‍

 

[BFC1997]

We take risks
We are brave
Raya played some excellent passes, yesterday, when his options were limited ?‍

?

It wasn’t even necessarily meant as a criticism.

Just an observation that he was taking more risks than usual with his distribution.

He wasn’t tested much, I thought he played well overall, but if Chelsea had scored from the needless free kick we gave away when he played one short pass too many around our box in the first half, his performance might have been viewed differently.

 

[hanworthbee]

Definitely in the 1st half I thought we were playing with fire when he had the ball at his feet and chelsea were just waiting for us to make a mistake

 

[North London Bee]

He was sensational yesterday with his anticipation positivity and distribution. He epitomised what we are about.

 

[badgerbee]

?

It wasn’t even necessarily meant as a criticism.

Just an observation that he was taking more risks than usual with his distribution.

He wasn’t tested much, I thought he played well overall, but if Chelsea had scored from the needless free kick we gave away when he played one short pass too many around our box in the first half, his performance might have been viewed differently.

I get what you're saying, but that's the way we play.
Undoubtedly there will be an occasion (Or 2....) where we concede due to a "risky" pass out from the back this season, but we have to balance that against how we perform overall, using that as one of our main tactics.
I just hope that when it happens, people realise the risk v reward has been very much in our favour, and we need to continue to play that way.....

 

[Billy Hunt]

?

It wasn’t even necessarily meant as a criticism.

Just an observation that he was taking more risks than usual with his distribution.

He wasn’t tested much, I thought he played well overall, but if Chelsea had scored from the needless free kick we gave away when he played one short pass too many around our box in the first half, his performance might have been viewed differently.

By some supporters, probably, but not by TF or the Dofs.
It’s the way we play.
I had hoped that we would all ‘get it’ by now. It’s something we’ve been doing for a long time.

 

[Kingston Bee]

This guy has proved he is a top keeper, top 5 in the prem I would say. He is on the radar of several bigger clubs and think we will struggle to keep him past this season. What is he now worth, upwards of 30m I would say but maybe I am biased. Raya has stepped up big time, did not put a hand or foot wrong last night. As good as Mendy who some are claiming should be nominated for that competition that Messi and Ronaldo have won several times (can't think of the name right now). Enjoy him whilst he is still ours.

 

[BFC1997]

By some supporters, probably, but not by TF or the Dofs.
It’s the way we play.
I had hoped that we would all ‘get it’ by now. It’s something we’ve been doing for a long time.

No it isn’t. That’s my literal point. He has been far more risk averse in playing short from the back so far. Yesterday was braver than usual and it was a largely complimentary observation, as I mentioned he mostly pulled it off.

But just because we say we like to take calculated risks doesn’t mean we (TF or the DoFs) would be happy to see us get caught every week playing out from the back unnecessarily giving away goals. Norwich do it on a regular basis, for example. I don’t call that brave I call that naïve.

Fortunately we weren’t punished yesterday so it didn’t matter.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

By some supporters, probably, but not by TF or the Dofs.
It’s the way we play.
I had hoped that we would all ‘get it’ by now. It’s something we’ve been doing for a long time.

We're actually doing it less this season. TF's approach has been pragmatic. Horses for courses. Would have been suicidal v Liverpool so didn't do it, whereas Chelsea's press was not quite as high or aggressive which allowed us plan A on more occasions.

 

[Billy Hunt]

No it isn’t. That’s my literal point. He has been far more risk averse in playing short from the back so far. Yesterday was braver than usual and it was a largely complimentary observation, as I mentioned he mostly pulled it off.

But just because we say we like to take calculated risks doesn’t mean we (TF or the DoFs) would be happy to see us get caught every week playing out from the back unnecessarily giving away goals. Norwich do it on a regular basis, for example. I don’t call that brave I call that naïve.

Fortunately we weren’t punished yesterday so it didn’t matter.

Suggesting Raya was taking more risks cos we were on the telly, and cos he had been ‘bigged up’ by the press during the week doesn’t sound complimentary

Raya’s distribution has been excellent, this season. ?‍

 

[Raise The Roof]

We're actually doing it less this season. TF's approach has been pragmatic. Horses for courses. Would have been suicidal v Liverpool so didn't do it, whereas Chelsea's press was not quite as high or aggressive which allowed us plan A on more occasions.

I agree with both sides of the argument above. DR seemed to be trying to mix things up, but we definitely have more momentum when he pings it forward, rather than short passes. And don’t think that is his fault. Our defence has to take responsibility to get the ball upfield faster. PJ did it yesterday (&was immense), EP did at times too. But if you were to compare us to Chelsea 1st half, every Chelsea player accelerated forward as soon as they got the ball. The opposite for us was Zanka who passed sideways and backwards the whole time, so impeding our momentum, and so minimising our threat (even though it was the safe play and meant we retained possession). After a bit Chelsea were doing the same, their attacks would go sideways, and they lost momentum (Due to our good defending).

think what I’m trying to say is we need to maintain our threat to teams by always trying to move the ball forward fast. Will mean we lose possession more, but then we did yesterday (by playing slowly) anyway.

 

[Oxford Bee]

We take risks
We are brave
Raya played some excellent passes, yesterday, when his options were limited ?‍

Tune?

 

[Mr Tree]

As good as Mendy who some are claiming should be nominated for that competition that Messi and Ronaldo have won several times (can't think of the name right now). Enjoy him whilst he is still ours.

Pop Idol?

We take risks
We are brave
Raya played some excellent passes, yesterday, when his options were limited ?‍

Hmm it's a nice start, but what's the tune please?
Damn @Oxford Bee just pipped me to this attempt at humour

 

[Billy Hunt]

Tune?

Una paloma blanca

 

[Billy Hunt]

Pop Idol?

Hmm it's a nice start, but what's the tune please?
Damn @Oxford Bee just pipped me to this attempt at humour

For you, the tune is Take your love and shove it, by Joe Pesci ?

 

[jlove]

Nothing to do with Chelsea's high press and aggression to win second balls then.

 

[BFC1997]

Suggesting Raya was taking more risks cos we were on the telly, and cos he had been ‘bigged up’ by the press during the week doesn’t sound complimentary

Raya’s distribution has been excellent, this season. ?‍

Regardless of the motivation for taking more risks there was a change in style from previous games which you don’t seem to get.

He did mostly well yesterday despite being braver and I agree his distribution has been overall excellent this season.

It doesn’t mean the change in style didn’t contribute to a couple of hairy moments that could have cost us and could been avoided - it did.

My original point was that the enhanced media focus during the week and camera presence might have been one reason for the slight change up in style. It could also have been entirely tactical.

I still totally trust Raya.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Regardless of the motivation for taking more risks there was a change in style from previous games which you don’t seem to get.

He did mostly well yesterday despite being braver and I agree his distribution has been overall excellent this season.

It doesn’t mean the change in style didn’t contribute to a couple of hairy moments that could have cost us and could been avoided - it did.

My original point was that the enhanced media focus during the week and camera presence might have been one reason for the slight change up in style. It could also have been entirely tactical.

I still totally trust Raya.

Thank you for your patronising post ?

I think it was entirely tactical. We have an excellent head coach who has changed our tactics many times, this season, and it has caused problems for all our opponents.

Hairy moments ? that cost us nothing
It’s the way we play ?‍

 

[sonofabee]

Regardless of the motivation for taking more risks there was a change in style from previous games which you don’t seem to get.

He did mostly well yesterday despite being braver and I agree his distribution has been overall excellent this season.

It doesn’t mean the change in style didn’t contribute to a couple of hairy moments that could have cost us and could been avoided - it did.

My original point was that the enhanced media focus during the week and camera presence might have been one reason for the slight change up in style. It could also have been entirely tactical.

I still totally trust Raya.

“Hairy moments” that didn’t put us in trouble or cost us so therefore justified his decision making?
The way we play out from the back is one of the reasons we are where we are so far and most of us accept it is going to result in a small % of errors over the season as it has since he’s been in goal.
He’s brave, has complete confidence in his own ability as does our defence so I’m happy for him to play exactly the way he has been and without any mistakes that have cost us so far.

 

[Bungy Bee]

IMHO...think he slowed our attack threat down yesterday by not getting the ball moving quickly enough.....thus getting Chelskie on the back foot.....You Reds....

 

[BFC1997]

Thank you for your patronising post ?

I think it was entirely tactical. We have an excellent head coach who has changed our tactics many times, this season, and it has caused problems for all our opponents.

Hairy moments ? that cost us nothing
It’s the way we play ?‍

My posts aren’t intentionally patronising, I’m just trying to explain where I think the points of difference lie in our arguments.

You don’t seem to think that Raya’s distribution was any different yesterday to how it has been in other games. I think it was, I think he was braver in playing out from the back. Maybe that was tactical instruction, maybe it was other factors.

It was 95% positive as his distribution was mostly excellent even with those braver passes. But there was a couple of occasions where there was one short pass too many as a result of this change in style. You can’t really say those hairy moments didn’t cost us, on at least one occasion we gave away a very dangerous set piece on the edge of our box and therefore a good chance to the opposition.

That is something you write off as “oh well we are Brentford and we always take risks so who cares, they didn’t score so doesn’t matter”. My view is that risks should be calculated and I don’t want to be caught out in future matches. At times Raya was flying just a bit too close to the sun at times yesterday. I have no doubt with more experience against this top level opposition Raya will get the balance right.

 

[Billy Hunt]

My posts aren’t intentionally patronising, I’m just trying to explain where I think the points of difference lie in our arguments.

You don’t seem to think that Raya’s distribution was any different yesterday to how it has been in other games. I think it was, I think he was braver in playing out from the back. Maybe that was tactical instruction, maybe it was other factors.

It was 95% positive as his distribution was mostly excellent even with those braver passes. But there was a couple of occasions where there was one short pass too many as a result of this change in style. You can’t really say those hairy moments didn’t cost us, on at least one occasion we gave away a very dangerous set piece on the edge of our box and therefore a good chance to the opposition.

That is something you write off as “oh well we are Brentford and we always take risks so who cares, they didn’t score so doesn’t matter”. My view is that risks should be calculated and I don’t want to be caught out in future matches. At times Raya was flying just a bit too close to the sun at times yesterday. I have no doubt with more experience against this top level opposition Raya will get the balance right.

Best phone Thomas then ?

 

[BFC1997]

Best phone Thomas then ?

Crikey. It’s a football forum, you never posted an opinion about our performances or players before?

 

[BFC1997]

“Hairy moments” that didn’t put us in trouble or cost us so therefore justified his decision making?
The way we play out from the back is one of the reasons we are where we are so far and most of us accept it is going to result in a small % of errors over the season as it has since he’s been in goal.
He’s brave, has complete confidence in his own ability as does our defence so I’m happy for him to play exactly the way he has been and without any mistakes that have cost us so far.

Well some of the hairy moments did put us in danger.

"They way we play out from the back is one of the reasons we are where we are so far" - except we have been very direct from the GK this season until yesterday where at times it was much shorter.

 

[Dazza]

My posts aren’t intentionally patronising, I’m just trying to explain where I think the points of difference lie in our arguments.

You don’t seem to think that Raya’s distribution was any different yesterday to how it has been in other games. I think it was, I think he was braver in playing out from the back. Maybe that was tactical instruction, maybe it was other factors.

It was 95% positive as his distribution was mostly excellent even with those braver passes. But there was a couple of occasions where there was one short pass too many as a result of this change in style. You can’t really say those hairy moments didn’t cost us, on at least one occasion we gave away a very dangerous set piece on the edge of our box and therefore a good chance to the opposition.

That is something you write off as “oh well we are Brentford and we always take risks so who cares, they didn’t score so doesn’t matter”. My view is that risks should be calculated and I don’t want to be caught out in future matches. At times Raya was flying just a bit too close to the sun at times yesterday. I have no doubt with more experience against this top level opposition Raya will get the balance right.

And here is where the problem lies. Implying it was him doing what he wanted because he was on TV after being "bigged up by the press" and not a call by TF and the coaching staff is calling Raya's professionalism into question for seemingly no other reason than you felt he took a couple of risks he shouldn't have. Just a bit of an odd thing to suggest imo ?‍

 

[sonofabee]

Well some of the hairy moments did put us in danger.

"They way we play out from the back is one of the reasons we are where we are so far" - except we have been very direct from the GK this season until yesterday where at times it was much shorter.

Which moments put us in danger or cost us?
He clipped one ball to Zanka that only just cleared the forward but it was perfectly judged and found our defender in space so didn’t put us in danger?
Which other occasions are you referring to ?

 

[BFC1997]

And here is where the problem lies. Implying it was him doing what he wanted because he was on TV after being "bigged up by the press" and not a call by TF and the coaching staff is calling Raya's professionalism into question for seemingly no other reason than you felt he took a couple of risks he shouldn't have. Just a bit of an odd thing to suggest imo ?‍

Fair enough, it was just observing a change and trying to understand the reasoning behind it. I did say it could also be tactical.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Crikey. It’s a football forum, you never posted an opinion about our performances or players before?

Yes
Once or twice ?
I try to avoid the pointless overanalysing and nitpicking though

 

[BFC1997]

Which moments put us in danger or cost us?
He clipped on ball to Zanka that only just cleared the forward but it was perfectly judged and found out defender in space so didn’t put us in danger?
Which other occasions are you referring to ?

One that springs to mind is when he played a short pass into Norgaard who was under pressure, was quickly dispossessed and we gave away a free kick on the edge of our own box.

 

[Oxford Bee]

Una paloma blanca

Needs a bit of work on making the last line scan.

 

[AB]

Chelsea don’t press from the front but are very tight in midfield and defence whereas Liverpool look to turnover the ball very high up and convert straight to attack. So it made sense to pass out against the former and go longer against the latter. Nothing to do with being on the telly.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Needs a bit of work on making the last line scan.

Wasn't it Seasons in the Sun (Terry Jacks)?

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Nothing to do with Chelsea's high press and aggression to win second balls then.

Hi jlove. Not sure I follow what you are saying (genuinely)??

 

[Beecareful]

He is our best goalie, bar none, since 'Chesney'.

 

[Idaho Bee]

Lee Dixon, ex Arsenal and now Brentford Season Ticket Holder was very complimentary at Raya's positioning enabling him to quickly snuff out some Chelski goal attempts. There was one where he had to play it outside his box near the sideline and he passed it out of trouble.

 

[badgerbee]

He is our best goalie, bar none

 

[BaildonBee]

Well some of the hairy moments did put us in danger.

"They way we play out from the back is one of the reasons we are where we are so far" - except we have been very direct from the GK this season until yesterday where at times it was much shorter.

Blimey. I thought his distribution was particularly good yesterday. That is why I jumped on this thread. He is looking a class act this year. I am not sure there are many better passing GKs in the league. I think it is this strength that will attract one of the big 6 to come in for him at some point.

 

[BFC1997]

Blimey. I thought his distribution was particularly good yesterday. That is why I jumped on this thread. He is looking a class act this year. I am not sure there are many better passing GKs in the league. I think it is this strength that will attract one of the big 6 to come in for him at some point.

I don’t disagree with any of that. I just observed that;

a) he was braver and shorter with his passing yesterday, compared with other games where he has been more direct.

b) whilst generally excellent he overplayed it a couple of times as a result of the above and put us in danger.

 

[Mr Cynical]

Definitely in the 1st half I thought we were playing with fire when he had the ball at his feet and chelsea were just waiting for us to make a mistake

He played some really good passes to be fair and looked totally comfortable on the ball. Couple of superb passes out to Henry and Mbeumo.. Generally went a bit wrong when the CBs tried to play it quickly and Norgaard was having to come too deep facing his own goal with players on his back. There were a few wobbly moments there but we generally mopped it up well. I think we were having to try and to play it out more as not much was sticking up front first half and they weren't pressing with quite the same intensity as Liverpool.