Five-year rolling TAPs model??

[horshambees]

Who would get a points reduction ?
My youngest,10 y.o. has got 3,300 points.
Attends many away games and has been going almost 8 years.
Under 16s or 18s need to keep there TAPs so they have a chance to catch up with their old fellas and the OAPs.
Seems pointless we all lose pre 2020 points imo.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Honest to God, sometimes this board reminds me of Springfield and its tendency to get its knickers in a twist before anything has happened, or about something that someone says has happened but actually hasn't.

All together now, Monorail, Monorail...

 

[horshambees]

I wonder why that might be.

I can guess,but i do not want to assume i am right,but i am not stupid.

 

[Sultan]

Agree as the future fans are the young ones now and imo they need to be able to get tickets as opposed to a lifer who went when we played Grimsby away in 1985

So a loyal fan, who still goes, who went to Grimsby in 1985 should be forgotten in favour of a young un with their 'Can I have your shirt please' piece of cardboard.

 

[Banana]

So a loyal fan, who still goes, who went to Grimsby in 1985 should be forgotten in favour of a young un with their 'Can I have your shirt please' piece of cardboard.

If they still go then how will they be forgotten?

 

[Sultan]

If they still go then how will they be forgotten?

See Hanworth's key words . . .
'as opposed to a lifer'

 

[Banana]

See Hanworth's key words . . .
'as opposed to a lifer'

ah, I suspect he meant to add on the end "and doesn't go much, if at all, these days"

 

[kaebess]

"The move to a rolling model will benefit families ....."

My 10 year supporting daughter will now be in the same tier as her 15 year supporting brother and me - her 55 year supporting dad. We two longer termers might be slightly worse off (details unknown right now) but given she's been to every game we both have ever since she started going, it's only fair that she's at the same level as us - there is a massive gap right now that will never be bridged in my lifetime. I doubt anyone who still goes on a very regular basis is going to miss out at all here.

This post is probably far to fair and sensible for most keyboard warriors on here.

 

[hanworthbee]

See Hanworth's key words . . .
'as opposed to a lifer'

The away games I've been to there are so many old people it's like a day out from the old people's home !

 

[kaebess]

Because he is not the type of fan they are looking for or wanting to sit/stand next too.

But its alright if he deliveries their takeaway though

 

[Sultan]

The away games I've been to there are so many old people it's like a day out from the old people's home !

Let's euphanise the elderly. What do you reckin 50+?

 

[8corner]

I'm not at all sure what the problem is here. What exactly are BIAS/BU/Club trying to achieve? Are we creating an industry to fix something that ain't broke?

• Pretty much anyone who wants to go can already get a ticket for 95% of our games.
• We already have a lot of new fans and who cares if they are Mohammed, Sven, Paddy, John or Sally. (Although, maybe let Rupert head off to the Cottage). I'd love ALL Bees to be passionate and vocal and make the GTech a cauldron but otherwise, I'm just happy that they have chosen the same club that I did.
• For those 5% of games (maybe one or two a season), like Bournemouth away, where demand will outstrip supply, the the 1,000 (for example) with the highest TAPs rightly get first dibs.
• For the other 95% of our games there is a great opportunity to build your TAPs.

Come on people, we aren't selling our allocation for many away games and rather sadly don't even take the full allocation for some. It's only a few years ago we weren't even selling out for a trip to the Bush.

Let's not waste a whole lot of time and energy "fixing" a non-problem

 

[Truth_hurts]

But its alright if he deliveries their takeaway though

Where you going with this?
I couldn’t give a sh*t who delivers my takeaway.
He/She/It/They could turn up pink and yellow with one leg, as long as it arrives unopened and as ordered, I’m sweet ?

 

[nick logan]

I'm not at all sure what the problem is here. What exactly are BIAS/BU/Club trying to achieve? Are we creating an industry to fix something that ain't broke?

• Pretty much anyone who wants to go can already get a ticket for 95% of our games.
• We already have a lot of new fans and who cares if they are Mohammed, Sven, Paddy, John or Sally. (Although, maybe let Rupert head off to the Cottage). I'd love ALL Bees to be passionate and vocal and make the GTech a cauldron but otherwise, I'm just happy that they have chosen the same club that I did.
• For those 5% of games (maybe one or two a season), like Bournemouth away, where demand will outstrip supply, the the 1,000 (for example) with the highest TAPs rightly get first dibs.
• For the other 95% of our games there is a great opportunity to build your TAPs.

Come on people, we aren't selling our allocation for many away games and rather sadly don't even take the full allocation for some. It's only a few years ago we weren't even selling out for a trip to the Bush.

Let's not waste a whole lot of time and energy "fixing" a non-problem

Hard to disagree with all this

 

[LostBee]

 

[Banana]

Where you going with this?
I couldn’t give a sh*t who delivers my takeaway.
He/She/It/They could turn up pink and yellow with one leg, as long as it arrives unopened and as ordered, I’m sweet ?

Looks like he’s going in exactly the correct direction

 

[rebus]

Hard to disagree with all this

There’s some strong arguments there. But I’m generally in favour of rolling TAPs. It’s the one way we will see kids coming through, have genuine pathway, and ensuring our next generation of support. Just to repeat, if you’re going away regularly now, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[DidntYouUsedToBee]

I'm not at all sure what the problem is here. What exactly are BIAS/BU/Club trying to achieve? Are we creating an industry to fix something that ain't broke?

• Pretty much anyone who wants to go can already get a ticket for 95% of our games.
• We already have a lot of new fans and who cares if they are Mohammed, Sven, Paddy, John or Sally. (Although, maybe let Rupert head off to the Cottage). I'd love ALL Bees to be passionate and vocal and make the GTech a cauldron but otherwise, I'm just happy that they have chosen the same club that I did.
• For those 5% of games (maybe one or two a season), like Bournemouth away, where demand will outstrip supply, the the 1,000 (for example) with the highest TAPs rightly get first dibs.
• For the other 95% of our games there is a great opportunity to build your TAPs.

Come on people, we aren't selling our allocation for many away games and rather sadly don't even take the full allocation for some. It's only a few years ago we weren't even selling out for a trip to the Bush.

Let's not waste a whole lot of time and energy "fixing" a non-problem

Absolutely! It's just nonsense horror of horror, people who don't go to away games being able to get tickets to away games?!!

 

[nick logan]

There’s some strong arguments there. But I’m generally in favour of rolling TAPs. It’s the one way we will see kids coming through, have genuine pathway, and ensuring our next generation of support. Just to repeat, if you’re going away regularly now, then you have nothing to worry about.

No problem with rolling taps either mate

 

[Banana]

Pretty much anyone who wants to go can already get a ticket for 95% of our games.

Do you think it’s right for someone that has gone to every non Fulham away game for the past 5 seasons to not get a ticket for Fulham away?

 

[8corner]

Do you think it’s right for someone that has gone to every non Fulham away game for the past 5 seasons to not get a ticket for Fulham away?

Possibly.

 

[aslan]

Where you going with this?
I couldn’t give a sh*t who delivers my takeaway.
He/She/It/They could turn up pink and yellow with one leg, as long as it arrives unopened and as ordered, I’m sweet ?

?️

 

[JPince]

Do you think it’s right for someone that has gone to every non Fulham away game for the past 5 seasons to not get a ticket for Fulham away?

That's a heavy Taps number if they go to all homes as well, probably enough for Fulham and even muff.

 

[Banana]

That's a heavy Taps number if they go to all homes as well, probably enough for Fulham and even muff.

Well, it isn't.

 

[JPince]

Well, it isn't.

How Taps is that please.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

That's a heavy Taps number if they go to all homes as well, probably enough for Fulham and even muff.

The problem for me has always been the imbalance. As I wrote earlier, my daughter has been to all the same matches that I have for the last ten years but she is always two windows behind me when it comes to away tickets and that will never change under the current system. Fulham and Bournemouth - the two widely used examples - little or no chance so how is that fair on a supporter who has been going to games since she was 10. I'm glad that unfairness is going.

I don't go to as many away games as some of the esteemed on here so I'm sure they will stay ahead of me and rightly so. It just means when I am eligible, I can buy tickets for all of us regulars who go.

 

[guilly]

How Taps is that please.

Home games are 10/15 taps, and away are 15 to 50 (only one) , a full session is less than 800 taps for sure, assuming you can buy for all (which you can't!)

 

[fredbee]

Agree as the future fans are the young ones now and imo they need to be able to get tickets as opposed to a lifer who went when we played Grimsby away in 1985

Disagree. I don't see why a fan who slugged it out at Burton away eight years ago (I don't think TAPS existed in 1985 so picking a more recent example), for the sheer love of our club - and perhaps the (now potentially false) promise of future reward in the form of TAPS should we ever reach the promised land - should merit LESS reward than someone who watched Man Utd three years ago hoping to get a snap of Cristiano Ronaldo for their Instagram.

As for others' comments that the proposal is justified as the club should be looking to drive fan attendance today and that young fans can't hope to compete with the old and bold who have built up TAPS over a long time but never/ rarely go, this is in largely negated by the fact the TAPS are there to differentiate when demand outstrips supply - a fan who rarely/ never goes, by definition rarely/ never takes the opportunity away from from a newer fan.

It is true that it is not easy for a younger fan to build up the TAPS to complete for the more sought after away fixtures; it involves putting in 'hard yards' at less glamorous fixtures. The same hard yards that many have trodden over many years, without which the club would not be where it is today... and may look to rely upon again in the future.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Home games are 10/15 taps, and away are 15 to 50 (only one) , a full session is less than 800 taps for sure, assuming you can buy for all (which you can't!)

I reckon a regular supporter would be lucky to get 100 taps nearer a less regular supporter per season.

 

[8corner]

Well, it isn't.

5 seasons home and away
Say 3 in the prem say 20 x 10 x 3 for home (including cup) plus 20x 30x3 away = 2,400
2 in the championship say 25x10x2 for home, plus 25x30x2 = 2,000
So 4,400 give or take going into this season. They'd have got Fulham away and have approaching 5,000 TAPs going into the Bournemouth sale (so maybe Tranche 2).

I doubt if there is any example of a fan who has done home and away for 5 years who will NOT get a ticket for Bournemouth.

 

[8corner]

I reckon a regular supporter would be lucky to get 100 taps nearer a less regular supporter per season.

100 TAPs? In a season? That's not regular Les - that would be 10 home league games and absolutely nothing away. That person should not expect to be getting a ticket for Bournemouth to be honest.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

100 TAPs? In a season? That's not regular Les - that would be 10 home league games and absolutely nothing away. That person should not expect to be getting a ticket for Bournemouth to be honest.

Net 100 points i.e. 100 points more than someone else which would maybe equate to going to 5+ more game than someone else in a season. The gap is impossible to close.

 

[JPince]

Net 100 points. The gap is impossible to be closed.

Newcastle away x 2 does it in 2 games

 

[Truth_hurts]

Disagree. I don't see why a fan who slugged it out at Burton away eight years ago (I don't think TAPS existed in 1985 so picking a more recent example), for the sheer love of our club - and perhaps the (now potentially false) promise of future reward in the form of TAPS should we ever reach the promised land - should merit LESS reward than someone who watched Man Utd three years ago hoping to get a snap of Cristiano Ronaldo for their Instagram.

As for others' comments that the proposal is justified as the club should be looking to drive fan attendance today and that young fans can't hope to compete with the old and bold who have built up TAPS over a long time but never/ rarely go, this is in largely negated by the fact the TAPS are there to differentiate when demand outstrips supply - a fan who rarely/ never goes, by definition rarely/ never takes the opportunity away from from a newer fan.

It is true that it is not easy for a younger fan to build up the TAPS to complete for the more sought after away fixtures; it involves putting in 'hard yards' at less glamorous fixtures. The same hard yards that many have trodden over many years, without which the club would not be where it is today... and may look to rely upon again in the future.

Well said

 

[Garybaldbee]

That's a heavy Taps number if they go to all homes as well, probably enough for Fulham and even muff.

It isn't. My wife started to go to games regularly in about 2018 but didn't properly begin to collect TAPs until the move to the new stadium because, stupidly, I bought all her tickets for her in my name. Over the last four seasons though she's been to almost every home game in league and cup and probably 60-70% of the aways. She's been to each of the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man United, Forest, Villa, Wolves etc multiple times but has never been able to get a ticket for Fulham or Bournemouth because even four years of regular accumulation of TAPs in high quantities hasn't yet got her to 3,000.

 

[rebus]

Newcastle away x 2 does it in 2 games

That’s two seasons.

 

[JPince]

That’s two seasons.

Not this season

 

[AB]

So a loyal fan, who still goes, who went to Grimsby in 1985 should be forgotten in favour of a young un with their 'Can I have your shirt please' piece of cardboard.

No. If they are still going as regularly as they ever did they are highly unlikely to see any difference other than the number of TAPs they have. Someone in that category will only fall behind that young un if that young un has gone to more distant away games since 2021 and even then both will be in the top tranche. The young un will merely have replaced one of the 1000 in the top tranche who almost never have gone to PL away games.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Not this season

Yes, so if she doesn't go she doesn't get those points and stays behind someone who does. That's fine.

 

[8corner]

Net 100 points. The gap is impossible to be closed.

It's only impossible to close if those at the top keep going at at least the same rate. In which case, fair play to them, they STILL deserve first dibs.

 

[rebus]

Not this season

Probably the one and only time.

 

[8corner]

This only seems to come up when we have an imminent sale window for Bournemouth away (maybe Luton or Fulham).

There wasn't much bickering about the current system for Wolves away in the FA Cup replay a year ago.

 

[Truth_hurts]

It isn't. My wife started to go to games regularly in about 2018 but didn't properly begin to collect TAPs until the move to the new stadium because, stupidly, I bought all her tickets for her in my name. Over the last four seasons though she's been to almost every home game in league and cup and probably 60-70% of the aways. She's been to each of the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man United, Forest, Villa, Wolves etc multiple times but has never been able to get a ticket for Fulham or Bournemouth because even four years of regular accumulation of TAPs in high quantities hasn't yet got her to 3,000.

4 years of going regularly going to Old Trafford and Anfield doesn’t really compare to say 8+years of going to Hartlepool, Walsall and Rochdale though does it?

 

[JPince]

It isn't. My wife started to go to games regularly in about 2018 but didn't properly begin to collect TAPs until the move to the new stadium because, stupidly, I bought all her tickets for her in my name. Over the last four seasons though she's been to almost every home game in league and cup and probably 60-70% of the aways. She's been to each of the likes of Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Man United, Forest, Villa, Wolves etc multiple times but has never been able to get a ticket for Fulham or Bournemouth because even four years of regular accumulation of TAPs in high quantities hasn't yet got her to 3,000.

But the example was 5 seasons and every away game except Fulham which as 8corner shows prob gets Fulham and v close to bournemouth.

 

[Banana]

I doubt if there is any example of a fan who has done home and away for 5 years who will NOT get a ticket for Bournemouth.

IIRC there are 2000 people with more Taps than that person. So some sort of recalibration is required.
If those 2000 don’t go that often then it means with the clubs planning with windows is always at risk (see Luton last year). As they don’t know with any certainty whatsoever if those 2000 are going to materialise for any game.
The impact to you (well not those at the top of the tree) is that the club can’t publish useful information as to how many fans are in each tranche etc
So whilst this may be “nothing to fix” from your point of view it does mean that those that have been coming for 5-10 years can get more certainly as to whether they will get a ticket or not

as I suggested above, best wait for the comms before deciding that this is an unmitigated disaster

 

[Les Beeavinu]

It's only impossible to close if those at the top keep going at at least the same rate. In which case, fair play to them, they STILL deserve first dibs.

Ok, it's not impossible but you tell me who long it would take someone to close a gap of 2500 points. 10 years maybe? More? Currently, someone on 5000 TAPs could go to 5 games a year for 5 years but would still be ahead of her in a queue for tickets.

 

[rebus]

4 years of going regularly going to Old Trafford and Anfield doesn’t really compare to say 8+years of going to Hartlepool, Walsall and Rochdale though does it?

When was the last time we played those clubs in the league?

 

[Banana]

4 years of going regularly going to Old Trafford and Anfield doesn’t really compare to say 8+years of going to Hartlepool, Walsall and Rochdale though does it?

If you’ve been to Hartlepool 8 times then I’ll get Mo Farah to deliver your pizza

 

[8corner]

There’s some strong arguments there. But I’m generally in favour of rolling TAPs. It’s the one way we will see kids coming through, have genuine pathway, and ensuring our next generation of support. Just to repeat, if you’re going away regularly now, then you have nothing to worry about.

HOWEVER - the kids can (and are, thankfully) come through. They can probably do 36 or 37/38 PL games a season plus probably all our cup games. There MAY be 1 or 2 games a season they can't get a ticket. If they do that for 5 or 6 seasons they'll have enough TAPs for EVERY game

 

[Les Beeavinu]

It's only impossible to close if those at the top keep going at at least the same rate. In which case, fair play to them, they STILL deserve first dibs.

I completely agree. Regular attenders should always be rewarded first.