Five-year rolling TAPs model??

[Truth_hurts]

If you’ve been to Hartlepool 8 times then I’ll get Mo Farah to deliver your pizza

You know exactly the point I was making.

 

[guilly]

HOWEVER - the kids can (and are, thankfully) come through. They can probably do 36 or 37/38 PL games a season plus probably all our cup games. There MAY be 1 or 2 games a season they can't get a ticket. If they do that for 5 or 6 seasons they'll have enough TAPs for EVERY game

I assume you don't have kids in school age? Try doing Newcastle, Manchester or Liverpool away midweek, even Wolves and Villa or the likes of Colchester are challenging

 

[rebus]

HOWEVER - the kids can (and are, thankfully) come through. They can probably do 36 or 37/38 PL games a season plus probably all our cup games. There MAY be 1 or 2 games a season they can't get a ticket. If they do that for 5 or 6 seasons they'll have enough TAPs for EVERY game

We need to ensure that in this period of prosperity we don’t choke off young people coming to Brentford games. If this scheme helps that in any direction, then I’m all for it. If you go regularly now, there is no change.

 

[horshambees]

But its alright if he deliveries their takeaway though

And opens up the convenience store till midnight.

 

[Jay Bee]

Disagree. I don't see why a fan who slugged it out at Burton away eight years ago (I don't think TAPS existed in 1985 so picking a more recent example), for the sheer love of our club - and perhaps the (now potentially false) promise of future reward in the form of TAPS should we ever reach the promised land - should merit LESS reward than someone who watched Man Utd three years ago hoping to get a snap of Cristiano Ronaldo for their Instagram.

As for others' comments that the proposal is justified as the club should be looking to drive fan attendance today and that young fans can't hope to compete with the old and bold who have built up TAPS over a long time but never/ rarely go, this is in largely negated by the fact the TAPS are there to differentiate when demand outstrips supply - a fan who rarely/ never goes, by definition rarely/ never takes the opportunity away from from a newer fan.

It is true that it is not easy for a younger fan to build up the TAPS to complete for the more sought after away fixtures; it involves putting in 'hard yards' at less glamorous fixtures. The same hard yards that many have trodden over many years, without which the club would not be where it is today... and may look to rely upon again in the future.

I know STHs who don't go to as many away games as they used to.
It's true they rarely take the opportunity away from others. But, guess when they do?
They are either good at turning up for Fulham away, or more likely, they lend their ticket priority to friends with fewer TAPs.
So really you have either have to do five years of hard attendance to get to Fulham away, or you just need to be friends with a few of the right people... maybe that type of behaviour is what is motivating the change.

It's impossible to know if this is something that is going to impact many people or just who gets a bit of the priority for a few high profile games, it sounds like it's the latter. We will have to wait and see.

 

[8corner]

I assume you don't have kids in school age? Try doing Newcastle, Manchester or Liverpool away midweek, even Wolves and Villa or the likes of Colchester are challenging

You assume correct guilly. But one of our group is 16, very much of school age and has enough TAPs for Bournemouth away and will be going.

 

[Leicester Bee]

As someone who has been following Brentford up and down the country for decades, managed to accumulate well over 5500 points, and still go to every home game, I doubt that I will be pushed so far down the pecking order that I'll not be able to make most of the games I want to.
I've chosen to prioritise my family, so I don't do many away games anymore, and I'm sure there are some fans who might be more deserving than me.
I'd love to retain the value of my points for many years to come, but I get that there are some really enthusiastic fans who are doing the mileage at a time when I can't.

When I go back to doing more away games again, I'll be surprised if I miss out on too many games. Whatever is decided, just make it fair. There's a number of us who have supported Brentford because we love our club, not because we're in the Premier League. That same number will still support Brentford whether we're in League Two or whatever.

So make the adjustments but don't completely remove what we built up at a time when we didn't ever think that the Premier League could even happen.

 

[AB]

HOWEVER - the kids can (and are, thankfully) come through. They can probably do 36 or 37/38 PL games a season plus probably all our cup games. There MAY be 1 or 2 games a season they can't get a ticket. If they do that for 5 or 6 seasons they'll have enough TAPs for EVERY game

Meanwhile a long standing fan can go to 10 home games or pass it on to a pal, put their ST on the Exchange 6 times, forget about it 3 times and be guaranteed a ticket to Bournemouth and Fulham away (the only two aways they buy but often just to give the ticket to a pal from back in the day) for 5 or 6 seasons.

 

[Banana]

They are either good at turning up for Fulham away, or more likely, they lend their ticket priority to friends with fewer TAPs.

Nail
On
Head

 

[8corner]

We need to ensure that in this period of prosperity we don’t choke off young people coming to Brentford games. If this scheme helps that in any direction, then I’m all for it. If you go regularly now, there is no change.

The current scheme does not choke off new support (from any age group). Tickets are available to them for all but one or two games.

 

[guilly]

You assume correct guilly. But one of our group is 16, very much of school age and has enough TAPs for Bournemouth away and will be going.

Then please don't assume kids can do all home and away games for 5 years in a row please, because it's fair from accurate.

 

[nick logan]

This only seems to come up when we have an imminent sale window for Bournemouth away (maybe Luton or Fulham).

There wasn't much bickering about the current system for Wolves away in the FA Cup replay a year ago.

Was on my own all day and night for that apart from in ground lol

 

[BEEcool]

Think @badgerbee needs to resurrect the infamous Wayne and Roger TAPS case study to settle this one.

 

[8corner]

Meanwhile a long standing fan can go to 10 home games or pass it on to a pal, put their ST on the Exchange 6 times, forget about it 3 times and be guaranteed a ticket to Bournemouth and Fulham away (the only two aways they buy but often just to give the ticket to a pal from back in the day) for 5 or 6 seasons.

Right, this is getting non-sensical. Tell me how many of the top, say, 1,000 Tappers are doing this. You and 'nana seem to create "the extreme exception as an example (like above) to justify a quango to "lets get this huge problem sorted out"
People who aren't attending shouldn't get TAPs (e.g. ST on the exchange) - simple.
Don't just make up scenarios - state the facts behind the "problem" you are looking to resolve.

 

[jlove]

I’m prepared to wait until the final version is published.

But… I’m probably in the top 5% and I can’t see that it should affect me negatively based on this rumour/supposition.

 

[8corner]

Then please don't assume kids can do all home and away games for 5 years in a row please, because it's fair from accurate.

No assumption at all on my part old chap. All the assumption has been from you.

There are valid and practical reasons why they CAN'T attend every game BUT tickets will be available to them for EVERY game bar one or maybe two per season. My point, as ably demonstrated in my own example, is that it is entirely possible for a child of school age to have plenty of TAPs.

 

[8corner]

If you’ve been to Hartlepool 8 times then I’ll get Mo Farah to deliver your pizza

I reckon I've been there 10 times. Can I choose a different take away and celebrity to deliver please?

 

[Lincolnshirebee]

As someone who has been following Brentford up and down the country for decades, managed to accumulate well over 5500 points, and still go to every home game, I doubt that I will be pushed so far down the pecking order that I'll not be able to make most of the games I want to.
I've chosen to prioritise my family, so I don't do many away games anymore, and I'm sure there are some fans who might be more deserving than me.
I'd love to retain the value of my points for many years to come, but I get that there are some really enthusiastic fans who are doing the mileage at a time when I can't.

When I go back to doing more away games again, I'll be surprised if I miss out on too many games. Whatever is decided, just make it fair. There's a number of us who have supported Brentford because we love our club, not because we're in the Premier League. That same number will still support Brentford whether we're in League Two or whatever.

So make the adjustments but don't completely remove what we built up at a time when we didn't ever think that the Premier League could even happen.

Can you get me a ticket for Bournemouth then .

 

[nick logan]

If you’ve been to Hartlepool 8 times then I’ll get Mo Farah to deliver your pizza

Only 8 ! Pfft

 

[Banana]

I reckon I've been there 10 times. Can I choose a different take away and celebrity to deliver please?

Yes but @Truth_hurts has never been. #truthhurts

 

[AB]

Right, this is getting non-sensical. Tell me how many of the top, say, 1,000 Tappers are doing this. You and 'nana seem to create "the extreme exception as an example (like above) to justify a quango to "lets get this huge problem sorted out"
People who aren't attending shouldn't get TAPs (e.g. ST on the exchange) - simple.
Don't just make up scenarios - state the facts behind the "problem" you are looking to resolve.

About 1000 of the top TAPper STs buy tickets to very few or no away games.

It’s unfortunate this discussion is happening in the slight abstract but these various scenarios have actually been looked at and modelled during the discussions between BFC and fan groups in the working party mentioned in the first post and once the actual policy is formally announced more of this info can be shared.

The issue of who gets/should get TAPs when a ST transfers tickets and how to implement that is actually quite complex. For instance, might there be an argument that a ST who transfers or Exchanges their ticket 19 times should get zero TAPs? Should they be allowed to renew at all? Should the friend they pass it onto for 10-12 games be able to qualify for a ST themselves at the same priority as a member who paid £35-45 a ticket and played fastest finger?

Also all real scenarios for a future discussion.

 

[Banana]

Don't just make up scenarios - state the facts behind the "problem" you are looking to resolve.

Don’t just think that people are inventing scenarios.

as I said above. The comms are coming.

 

[Holysmit]

Honest to God, sometimes this board reminds me of Springfield and its tendency to get its knickers in a twist before anything has happened, or about something that someone says has happened but actually hasn't.

All together now, Monorail, Monorail...

Where you sent here by the devil?

 

[jlove]

Only 8 ! Pfft

Yeah… but one was blanketed in North Sea fog so I’m not sure it was the correct ground.

 

[Garybaldbee]

4 years of going regularly going to Old Trafford and Anfield doesn’t really compare to say 8+years of going to Hartlepool, Walsall and Rochdale though does it?

No. But it's not her fault she didn't meet me when we were rubbish ? And to be fair, going all the way up to somewhere like Burnley only to see us 3 down in 20 minutes (or, the next time, a man down and a goal down inside 5 minutes) is no more fun or glamorous than doing so at Bury or Blackpool. She got just as wet and cold at Palace last week as I have over the years at places like Wigan and Huddersfield.

Believe me I get your concerns. I'm a lifer who has watched the Bees at more than 100 grounds over the years, including all those that you mentioned. There's a need to ensure that the loyalty of the long term supporter is recognised and continues to be valued. But the system has to balance that with a means of rewarding and incentivising more recent active support as well in order to encourage our future growth as a club. There's nothing I've seen on this thread from posters who are close to the process and whose views I respect to suggest that the new system doesn't satisfactorily achieve that balance.

 

[8corner]

Don’t just think that people are inventing scenarios.

as I said above. The comms are coming.

I agree. One "fact" that would be hard to dispute, I'd imagine, is that it is possible for a "regular" supporter to get a ticket for 98 or 99% of Bees games.

I'll wait to see the quantified problems and how they'll be resolved.

 

[8corner]

Yeah… but one was blanketed in North Sea fog so I’m not sure it was the correct ground.

Only one! Pfft

 

[beebhoy]

I am with ? and wait to see the detail before having a view. Good to know that we have had a voice via BU/BIAS in what is eventually shared with the knowledge that you cannot please all the people all of the time. Thinking optimistically I hope that when we make it into Europe and allocations are considered for Real Madrid/Barcelona that some element of longevity is considered to acknowledge the trips made in our history which were slightly lower in glamour eg Rotherham, Stockport, Carlisle……

 

[Griffingreen]

The current scheme does not choke off new support (from any age group). Tickets are available to them for all but one or two games.

You're right, but getting much more than a single seat off the exchange is rare and makes it very difficult for a family with youngish children. Blocks of tickets in the East and N121 are possible, but you sometimes have to be pretty quick.

 

[nocoat]

Only 8 ! Pfft

But have you ever danced with the Laurence in the pale moon-light?

 

[nocoat]

I agree. One "fact" that would be hard to dispute, I'd imagine, is that it is possible for a "regular" supporter to get a ticket for 98 or 99% of Bees games.

I'll wait to see the quantified problems and how they'll be resolved.

I still have a proud record of never not being able to get a ticket for a game I wanted (ex covid obvs). The closest issue was Hinkley, did we only get 150 or so for that?

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Were you sent here by the devil?

Ah hell diddly-ding-dong-crap no. I'm just waiting for that song by I. Ron. Butterfly.

 

[nocoat]

FWIW I think something needed to happen here. It is impossible for new people to ever catch up. My boy was lucky he started when he did. If it was 3y later he would never have got to as many games. I would imagine as someone with just over 6k and who has jumped on the PL glory bandwagon for more away games in recent years I will be pretty much in exactly the same sport as I was before. But it will be funny to see @nick logan 's 9k tally somewhat decimated

 

[Griffingreen]

I am with ? and wait to see the detail before having a view. Good to know that we have had a voice via BU/BIAS in what is eventually shared with the knowledge that you cannot please all the people all of the time. Thinking optimistically I hope that when we make it into Europe and allocations are considered for Real Madrid/Barcelona that some element of longevity is considered to acknowledge the trips made in our history which were slightly lower in glamour eg Rotherham, Stockport, Carlisle……

Fully agree, I feel the only people who might sadly lose out are those who these days don't get to so many games, it's a shame but time moves on, I'm sure my time of not getting to so many games will come and I'll have to accept it.

 

[nick logan]

But have you ever danced with the Laurence in the pale moon-light?

done more than dance mate .... i've said too much

 

[guilly]

No assumption at all on my part old chap. All the assumption has been from you.

There are valid and practical reasons why they CAN'T attend every game BUT tickets will be available to them for EVERY game bar one or maybe two per season. My point, as ably demonstrated in my own example, is that it is entirely possible for a child of school age to have plenty of TAPs.

Ok, yes, you are right, have fun, and keep up the good supporting, sorry

 

[80s Bee]

I agree. One "fact" that would be hard to dispute, I'd imagine, is that it is possible for a "regular" supporter to get a ticket for 98 or 99% of Bees games.

I'll wait to see the quantified problems and how they'll be resolved.

I think about 95% would be more accurate. 92% last season.

 

[Banana]

Fully agree, I feel the only people who might sadly lose out are those who these days don't get to so many games, it's a shame but time moves on, I'm sure my time of not getting to so many games will come and I'll have to accept it.

You could pick and choose your games in the old days and now claim that you went to every northern outpost that ever existed

I suspect that a large percentage of people that attended 15 years ago attend more matches now.

I doubt there are many that went 46 times per season up until 5 years ago and now “sadly lose out”. They are literally 0 of these people. All of this is hand wringing over a hypothetical set of people that i suspect doesn’t even exist.

Don’t forget 1500(?) TAPs were special Kurt Taps for buying a ST in a particular month 3 years in a row. That opportunity doesn’t exist any more

 

[80s Bee]

Newcastle away x 2 does it in 2 games

Both mid week on a school night. You seem to be missing the point that this is about the next generation.

 

[JPince]

Both mid week on a school night. You seem to be missing the point that this is about the next generation.

That wasn't the question I was answering, it was a regular versus non regular, nothing to do with age.

 

[nocoat]

You could pick and choose your games in the old days and now claim that you went to every northern outpost that ever existed

I suspect that a large percentage of people that attended 15 years ago attend more matches now.

I doubt there are many that went 46 times per season up until 5 years ago and now “sadly lose out”. They are literally 0 of these people. All of this is hand wringing over a hypothetical set of people that i suspect doesn’t even exist.

Don’t forget 1500(?) TAPs were special Kurt Taps for buying a ST in a particular month 3 years in a row. That opportunity doesn’t exist any more

i dont think that offer lasted three years. it was a pisstake though in any case

 

[Banana]

i dont think that offer lasted three years. it was a pisstake though in any case

At least two. Anyway. The point stands no?

 

[badgerbee]

Think @badgerbee needs to resurrect the infamous Wayne and Roger TAPS case study to settle this one.

Funny you should say that..................
I was thinking of giving Rog and Wayne a call later to see how they've been getting on............

 

[LingfieldBee]

If something like this were implemented, it would be best to reduce the value of TAPs from 5+ years ago, rather than eliminate them entirely.

i.e. If you have 1000 TAPs that are 5+ years old, then they're reduced to ~200 TAPs. Doesn't seem right that the loyalty from our Football League days should be completely forgotten.

I think we did something similar in the first couple of years of TAPs being introduced.

I sit in this category. Season ticket holder for 25 years until this year. So majority of my Taps/points accumulated while go. Personal reasons mean I couldn't renew and haven't attended this year. Last half of last season I had to put most of my home games on the exchange. I'm probably couple years away being able to bring my boy up from here in the SW or attend away games on my own. Be gutted to lose majority of my taps.

I do understand some of the reasoning behind it.

 

[80s Bee]

That wasn't the question I was answering, it was a regular versus non regular, nothing to do with age.

Ok but this subject has everything to do with age and younger fans not getting access to certain games.

 

[fredbee]

I know STHs who don't go to as many away games as they used to.
It's true they rarely take the opportunity away from others. But, guess when they do?
They are either good at turning up for Fulham away, or more likely, they lend their ticket priority to friends with fewer TAPs.
So really you have either have to do five years of hard attendance to get to Fulham away, or you just need to be friends with a few of the right people... maybe that type of behaviour is what is motivating the change.

It's impossible to know if this is something that is going to impact many people or just who gets a bit of the priority for a few high profile games, it sounds like it's the latter. We will have to wait and see.

I take your point, although amongst my circle of the STH I know that don't go to as many games as they used to it's because as they have gotten older they have relocated from where they grew up, either because of family or work, so the fixtures they target are a different set altogether based on the practicalities of life and geography. I would speculate that that's fairly common as people branch out from their hometown, but to give your point its dues I would agree about passing on their allocations via friends and family. I would say that that's a privilege they have earned and it isn't unreasonable that younger fans earn their stripes to earn the same (notwithstanding that earning those 'hard yards' today in terms of TAPS involves an altogether more appealing standard of football), but granted that's a matter of opinion.

Re 'they are either good at...', this comes across as somewhat dismissive of a loyal core as a commodity who have now served their purpose, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that was just an unintended unfortunate turn of phrase.

 

[badgerbee]

I was just browsing the club’s website and came across an update from the Ticket Access Points (TAPs) Working Group regarding the proposed five-year rolling TAPs model. From what I can see, there was general agreement in September’s last meeting among fan groups that this system would reward high-attendance fans and allow families attending away games together to stay in similar TAPs windows.

I know there was talk about potential changes to the TAPs system, especially after the Luton game, but I hadn’t heard anything official until now. It looks like this might have been approved, but I’m not entirely sure.

Does anyone know more details about this? Is this just a recommendation, or will it definitely be implemented next year? Could it even affect season tickets?

This meeting happened five months ago, and I haven’t noticed any further communication with fans. Has anyone heard anything more?
View attachment 53044

?"One post!!
He's only sent one post!!"?

What have you done @GuiTW8 ??!!

 

[nocoat]

?"One post!!
He's only sent one post!!"?

What have you done @GuiTW8 ??!!

im sure he was "Just browsing..."

 

[nick logan]

Yeah… but one was blanketed in North Sea fog so I’m not sure it was the correct ground.

Owusu emerging out of the gloom so we knew we had scored !

 

[JPince]

Ok but this subject has everything to do with age and younger fans not getting access to certain games.

Yes, its probably just Bournemouth this season that's a problem.