James Tarkowski -

[finsbury_bee]

For me Craig is still our best defender, purely on the basis that dropping Craig makes me more nervous than dropping either of the other two. We need that experience, leadership and organisation at the back. Tough call for Warbs, not sure what he'll do. If he drops Dean then he'll know his place, and that he'll hardly ever get a game when the other two are fit. I think he deserves to keep his place.

 

[tobymugdo]

do you think Tarks is so valuable we allow him to do as he pleases, break the rules, potentially disrupt team stability, affect results and who knows team morale without punishment?

Get a grip! He got booked! Its an occupational hazard of being a centre back!

 

[josht]

You come across as intelligent man, do you think Tarks is so valuable we allow him to do as he pleases, break the rules, potentially disrupt team stability, affect results and who knows team morale without punishment?

I think you're maybe slightly overstating the affect a one game suspension has on a squad. Looking at the yellows within the side, it's probably likely that McCormack, Douglas and Craig will also pick up 5 bookings a sit a game out. Would they also be liable "doing as they please, breaking the rules, disrupting team stability and messing with team morale"?

 

[Invipai]

Tarky does need to learn to curve his yellows a little bit....we're a bit early in the season for 5 yellows IMO. The more I think about it the more I'd say keep Tarky on the bench *for now*, and return him soon. Dean played well so doesn't deserve to be dropped, Craig's leadership is important and possibly started to tell after he'd been out of the side for a few games.

Keeps all of them on their guard if they think they have someone who can realistically come in and take their place. You don't want Tarky to think he's immune and Dean to think he can't get in the side.

 

[SH]

... do you think Tarks is so valuable we allow him to do as he pleases, break the rules, potentially disrupt team stability, affect results and who knows team morale without punishment?

Hasn't JD got two less than JT, and Alan McC only one less... should they join the punishment queue? I think it's just possible Warbs will have pointed out to JT he needs to mind the silly bookings, but IMHO you just pick your best available centre back combination and get on with it. In my opinion JT is streets ahead of Harlee, but lots of others disagree. That's the beauty of the GPG.

 

[Bridge Bee]

Who plays on Sat will be very telling.

If Tarks returns it will tell Dean that he'll only play in the event of injury or suspension. In which case I'd expect him to want to move out on loan before of during January. Doesn't strike me as the sort of character who's happy to play 2nd fiddle. Understandable.

Personally think he deserves to keep his place.

 

[sonofabee]

Get a grip! He got booked! Its an occupational hazard of being a centre back!

He's been banned very quickly and he picked up bans last season - if Harlee wasn't here would you be happy to lose him for half a dozen games a season ?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Because if he continues to pick up regular bookings we are without him for longer periods and suffer. We will be even worse off if he doesn't learn and Harlee has left because he's been unfairly used as his understudy? You come across as intelligent man, do you think Tarks is so valuable we allow him to do as he pleases, break the rules, potentially disrupt team stability, affect results and who knows team morale without punishment?

Woah easy there, aren't you over-egging it a bit? He's got 5 bookings in 13 appearances. He's hardly being allowed to "do as he pleases, disrupt team stability ......." I don't think he has anything to be punished for and I believe he is a better player than Harlee Dean and Tony Craig which is why he should get his place back.

 

[sonofabee]

I think you're maybe slightly overstating the affect a one game suspension has on a squad. Looking at the yellows within the side, it's probably likely that McCormack, Douglas and Craig will also pick up 5 bookings a sit a game out. Would they also be liable "doing as they please, breaking the rules, disrupting team stability and messing with team morale"?

He got 2 bans last season and he already has 5 bookings this season after 12 games which if he continues will see him missing additional games when he gets to 10 and that's assuming he doesn't get sent off which he has form for. Look I love the bloke but he has to learn that he has to cut out the cards?

 

[sonofabee]

Woah easy there, aren't you over-egging it a bit? He's got 5 bookings in 13 appearances. He's hardly being allowed to "do as he pleases, disrupt team stability ......." I don't think he has anything to be punished for and I believe he is a better player than Harlee Dean and Tony Craig which is why he would get his place back.

If he is allowed back straight away despite Harlee being MOM it is allowing him to do as he pleases? It says you're so important keep playing exactly as you are, if you get booked so be it you're too good to bench and you'll be straight back in regardless of results when you're missing?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

3 bookings in 26 appearances two seasons ago, 9 booking in 49 appearances last season, 5 in 13 this season. That's not a bad record for a centre back and not one that he needs to be pulled up over.

 

[josht]

He got 2 bans last season and he already has 5 bookings this season after 12 games which if he continues will see him missing additional games when he gets to 10 and that's assuming he doesn't get sent off which he has form for. Look I love the bloke but he has to learn that he has to cut out the cards?

Players pick up yellow cards, that's not the end of the world, and it probably won't have any impression on the squad whatsoever. In fact, I'd say your over exaggeration - "disrupting team stability, messing with team morale, doing as he pleases" - is laughably over the top!

Now, if he'd started on his on goalkeeper mid game or started mouthing off to the press about whether or not he's in the team, then that might have a negative impact on team morale... but picking up bans through yellow cards happens up and down the leagues.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

If he is allowed back straight away despite Harlee being MOM it is allowing him to do as he pleases? It says you're so important keep playing exactly as you are, if you get booked so be it you're too good to bench and you'll be straight back in regardless of results when you're missing?

No it doesn't say that does it. If he gets booked / sent off every week, there's an issue but that's not the case. Are you suggesting that JD, Alan Mac, Andre Gray, Jota (Jota ffs!) will just have to sit on the bench if they happen to be sent off or suspended in future? If I was a player under that sort of threat, I'd probably go easy in games.

 

[josht]

If he is allowed back straight away despite Harlee being MOM it is allowing him to do as he pleases? It says you're so important keep playing exactly as you are, if you get booked so be it you're too good to bench and you'll be straight back in regardless of results when you're missing?

I think it probably says "you're the better of our right sided centre backs, and we have adequate cover should you be faced with suspension or injury, but don't let your form drop"

There's a slight chance you may be making a mountain out of a molehill with this one...

 

[Gazza Bee]

No it doesn't say that does it. If he gets booked / sent off every week, there's an issue but that's not the case. Are you suggesting that JD, Alan Mac, Andre Gray, Jota (Jota ffs!) will just have to sit on the bench if they happen to be sent off or suspended in future? If I was a player under that sort of threat, I'd probably go easy in games.

I think the point is that Harlee was man of the match on Tuesday and rightly deserves to keep his place. It sends out totally the wrong message if Tarks comes strolling back into the team regardless of how well Dean plays - he will just have to wait his turn unfortunately and rightly so, it is a squad game after all.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

How long will this "punishment" last for btw? Does our best centre back get back for the game after Bolton or is he to sit on the bench indefinitely (or at least until January when he can assess his options).

 

[Gazza Bee]

How long will this "punishment" last for btw? Does our best centre back get back for the game after that or is he to sit on the bench indefinitely (or at least until January when he can assess his options).

Your only as good as your last game is my view...Harlee will know as well as anyone that if he doesn't keep his high standards up then he will be dropped and incidentally he should then have no complaints.

 

[Gee Bee]

No it doesn't say that does it. If he gets booked / sent off every week, there's an issue but that's not the case. Are you suggesting that JD, Alan Mac, Andre Gray, Jota (Jota ffs!) will just have to sit on the bench if they happen to be sent off or suspended in future? If I was a player under that sort of threat, I'd probably go easy in games.

Some of his bookings are not for going in too hard or goal saving tackles, but are for petulance or trying to recitfy a mistake. HD picking up similar booking would be picked up very quickly by many on here. JT is a very good CB, but has some faults one of which is picking up unneccesary bookings.

 

[mundee4england]

Drop them both and get Leon Townley in on a shirt term contract!

 

[kevalutonbee]

Drop them both and get Leon Townley in on a shirt term contract!

And get Adam Griffiths back from Australia too

 

[GP200]

And get Adam Griffiths back from Australia too

.............and Jon Mackie...........

 

[shouldbee]

Drop them both and get Leon Townley in on a shirt term contract!

I'm sure if we ask Peter Taylor nicely he'll loan us Leon Legge ?......he was very much a fans favourite and some were even moaning when we let him go

 

[alikat]

Tarky does need to learn to curve his yellows a little bit

And how exactly does he do that? :shrug:

 

[shaun]

I think Tarks is a better player than Dean and so I would play Tarks on Saturday (with Craig).

 

[hypa123]

3 bookings in 26 appearances two seasons ago, 9 booking in 49 appearances last season, 5 in 13 this season. That's not a bad record for a centre back and not one that he needs to be pulled up over.

That's a marked acceleration in the rate at which he's picking up yellow cards.

I'm agnostic in the Dean/Tarkowski debate, but I thought Dean had an excellent game on Tuesday and was impressed by the quality of his long cross-field passes to Jota on the left.

 

[sonofabee]

No it doesn't say that does it. If he gets booked / sent off every week, there's an issue but that's not the case. Are you suggesting that JD, Alan Mac, Andre Gray, Jota (Jota ffs!) will just have to sit on the bench if they happen to be sent off or suspended in future? If I was a player under that sort of threat, I'd probably go easy in games.

They're not on course to pick up bans that will exclude them for several games a season though? Bans will happen but interested how you'll feel if we lose the 5 or 6 games he's unavailable for as we have inadequate cover? It feels like maybe it's just me but if he gets up to a booking every 2 games will that be acceptable?
Currently he is on course for 18 bookings this season which is atrocious? I'm sure someone will tell me how many games he may miss if he was to keep picking up at same rate.

 

[sonofabee]

3 bookings in 26 appearances two seasons ago, 9 booking in 49 appearances last season, 5 in 13 this season. That's not a bad record for a centre back and not one that he needs to be pulled up over.

5 in 12 league games isn't good as puts him on course for 18 bookings at current rate which is why he needs to cut out as he'll pick up a massive ban.

 

[stanner]

3 bookings in 26 appearances two seasons ago, 9 booking in 49 appearances last season, 5 in 13 this season. That's not a bad record for a centre back and not one that he needs to be pulled up over.

Some interesting stats Craig has played 10 games this season picking up 3 yellows and 1 red so call it four bookings which works out at 2.5 games a booking. Tarkowski has played 13 games and picked up 5 yellows which works out 2.6 games a booking. Any comments?

 

[PJ]

Some interesting stats Craig has played 10 games this season picking up 3 yellows and 1 red so call it four bookings which works out at 2.5 games a booking. Tarkowski has played 13 games and picked up 5 yellows which works out 2.6 games a booking. Any comments?

TC has served his sentence

 

[shaun]

That's a marked acceleration in the rate at which he's picking up yellow cards.

I'm agnostic in the Dean/Tarkowski debate, but I thought Dean had an excellent game on Tuesday and was impressed by the quality of his long cross-field passes to Jota on the left.

He is probably getting proportionately booked more this season as he is playing against better players?

 

[hatfieldbee]

TC has served his sentence

Indeed. He was benched for a few games, without complaint - publicly, at least. As Hypa points out, JT has 5 bookings already this season. Harlee was exceptional on Tuesday. He should keep his place until something happens that he ioses it.

 

[MetalBee]

As good as Tarky has been overall it sounds like Dean was immense the other night and he was arguably unlucky to be dropped when Craig came back in last month.

Would suggest we stick with Dean and Craig for Bolton and see what happens from there.

 

[readingbee]

As good as Tarky has been overall it sounds like Dean was immense the other night and he was arguably unlucky to be dropped when Craig came back in last month.

Would suggest we stick with Dean and Craig for Bolton and see what happens from there.

I wouldn't say unlucky mate. IMHO Craig naturally takes the left central spot. The other spot is a fight between Tarky and Dean, if Craig has to drop out for any reason, One of them has to fill in but its not thier natural position.
Again IMHO its Harlees spot to lose now, if he keeps playing as he did Tuesday Tarky could have a long wait. A great position for Warbs to be in.
Also TC is a natural leader and will support whoever is playing CB next to him. I dont think either Tarks or Harlee can do that for each other at this stage. They will get there in time.

 

[Doovster]

I wouldn't say unlucky mate. IMHO Craig naturally takes the left central spot. The other spot is a fight between Tarky and Dean, if Craig has to drop out for any reason, One of them has to fill in but its not thier natural position.
Again IMHO its Harlees spot to lose now, if he keeps playing as he did Tuesday Tarky could have a long wait. A great position for Warbs to be in.

Agree with everything you say. I've said many times that both Tarky and Harlee play better alongside TC. Much of that is down to better balance with the right footed CB playing on the right hand side and vice versa for the left footer.

 

[Alan D]

Agree with everything you say. I've said many times that both Tarky and Harlee play better alongside TC. Much of that is down to better balance with the right footed CB playing on the right hand side and vice versa for the left footer.

100% agree for me it's Craig and either or.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I wouldn't say unlucky mate. IMHO Craig naturally takes the left central spot. The other spot is a fight between Tarky and Dean, if Craig has to drop out for any reason, One of them has to fill in but its not thier natural position.
Again IMHO its Harlees spot to lose now, if he keeps playing as he did Tuesday Tarky could have a long wait. A great position for Warbs to be in.
Also TC is a natural leader and will support whoever is playing CB next to him. I dont think either Tarks or Harlee can do that for each other at this stage. They will get there in time.

A depressing thought - one of the best footballing centre backs we've had sat on the bench week after week. If that happened, I'd probably start a campaign to get him reinstated. Harlee Dean could be a decent championship defender, Tarkowski could play for England. It would be like picking Jamie Bates instead of Terry Evans every week.

 

[readingbee]

A depressing thought - one of the best footballing centre backs we've had sat on the bench week after week. If that happened, I'd probably start a campaign to get him reinstated. Harlee Dean could be a decent championship defender, Tarkowski could play for England. It would be like picking Jamie Bates instead of Terry Evans every week.

As depressing as it maybe for you LB. Would you honestly drop Harlee after his performance against SW to replace him with Tarks at this time ?? If you would, I would appreciate your logic on that, and how you would manage the situation with any other player who comes and performs as well as he did.

 

[Doovster]

As depressing as it maybe for you LB. Would you honestly drop Harlee after his performance against SW to replace him with Tarks at this time ?? If you would, I would appreciate your logic on that, and how you would manage the situation with any other player who comes and performs as well as he did.

As much as Tarks is a fantastic player with definite Premier league potential I think it's impossible to drop Harlee after Tuesday's performance. The old adage of it's yours to lose springs to mind.

Glad it's not me making the decision as someone is going to be p1ssed off.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Yes I'd play Tarkowski because he doesn't warrant being dropped as a result of his performances this season, not over one game. I'd play Tarkowski every game unless that form dropped dramatically because I genuinely believe that he's as good as any centre back I've seen this season and I don't think we have the luxury of dropping players of that calibre. The choice for me therefore is Dean and Craig and I've already stated a preference for a left sided defender but I guess I could be persuaded. As for Harlee's reaction - such is the life of a professional footballer when only 11 players can make it from a squad of 20+.

What irks me a little though is that somehow Tarkowski is being portrayed as ill-disciplned, has let us down and needs to be taught a lesson - that's nonsense imo, he's a fabulous player.

 

[tobymugdo]

Maybe we can bring back Leo Roget?

 

[stanner]

As much as Tarks is a fantastic player with definite Premier league potential I think it's impossible to drop Harlee after Tuesday's performance. The old adage of it's yours to lose springs to mind.

Glad it's not me making the decision as someone is going to be p1ssed off.

If someone came in for Ranaldo when he was suspended and played a blinder would you keep Ranaldo out next game. Don't think so.

 

[Artixbee]

Maybe we can bring back Leo Roget?

David MacCracken and Pim Balkenstein for me.

 

[sonofabee]

Yes I'd play Tarkowski because he doesn't warrant being dropped as a result of his performances this season, not over one game. I'd play Tarkowski every game unless that form dropped dramatically because I genuinely believe that he's as good as any centre back I've seen this season and I don't think we have the luxury of dropping players of that calibre. The choice for me therefore is Dean and Craig and I've already stated a preference for a left sided defender but I guess I could be persuaded. As for Harlee's reaction - such is the life of a professional footballer when only 11 players can make it from a squad of 20+.

What irks me a little though is that somehow Tarkowski is being portrayed as ill-disciplned, has let us down and needs to be taught a lesson - that's nonsense imo, he's a fabulous player.

He is but he has been cautioned 5 times that's a fact.

 

[sonofabee]

Yes I'd play Tarkowski because he doesn't warrant being dropped as a result of his performances this season, not over one game. I'd play Tarkowski every game unless that form dropped dramatically because I genuinely believe that he's as good as any centre back I've seen this season and I don't think we have the luxury of dropping players of that calibre. The choice for me therefore is Dean and Craig and I've already stated a preference for a left sided defender but I guess I could be persuaded. As for Harlee's reaction - such is the life of a professional footballer when only 11 players can make it from a squad of 20+.

What irks me a little though is that somehow Tarkowski is being portrayed as ill-disciplned, has let us down and needs to be taught a lesson - that's nonsense imo, he's a fabulous player.

Well we have got the luxury and can afford to leave him out because in case you didn't notice we've just had another clean sheet with Harlee when he was unavailable ?
Listen we'll never agree but as good as Tarks is it would be extremely unfair in my opinion to drop Harlee after a MOM performance and a clean sheet. I also believe it would send out the wrong message to fringe players that regardless of how well you play when you come in you're not ever going to be my first choice.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

David MacCracken and Pim Balkenstein for me.

Leon Townley?

 

[Kingston Bee]

Yes this is a difficult one but the fact is that Harlee played exceptionally well in helping to keep a clean sheet on Tuesday night. Don't think many would argue that Tarks is the better all round player but there is no reason to drop Harlee and would imo send out all the wrong messages if that were to happen. Imo it is who plays with TC, and I don't think a bit of competition for Tarks (or Harlee for that matter) is a bad thing. You cannot have a situation where because of your name you are a dead cert to play, however good you are. A difficult situation yes, but don't lets forget its about the team/squad. Harlee is in the pole position because he got the opportunity however unfortunate for Tarks.

 

[djheavens]

Ibrahima Sonko.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

You can't drop Harlee.

He will go boo hoo-ing to Get West London (whatever that is).

 

[SH]

Yes this is a difficult one but the fact is that Harlee played exceptionally well in helping to keep a clean sheet on Tuesday night. Don't think many would argue that Tarks is the better all round player but there is no reason to drop Harlee and would imo send out all the wrong messages if that were to happen. Imo it is who plays with TC, and I don't think a bit of competition for Tarks (or Harlee for that matter) is a bad thing. You cannot have a situation where because of your name you are a dead cert to play, however good you are. A difficult situation yes, but don't lets forget its about the team/squad. Harlee is in the pole position because he got the opportunity however unfortunate for Tarks.

But the logic of this is that you don't play your best team. If JT is "the better all round player" (which I think he is, but that's obviously a personal opinion) when do you bring him back? The other aspect is that centre back partnerships need time to develop, so I'd ask why waste a single game of playing TC/JT together? Not often a team sheet will have been so closely watched

 

[shouldbee]

Yes I'd play Tarkowski because he doesn't warrant being dropped as a result of his performances this season, not over one game. I'd play Tarkowski every game unless that form dropped dramatically because I genuinely believe that he's as good as any centre back I've seen this season and I don't think we have the luxury of dropping players of that calibre. The choice for me therefore is Dean and Craig and I've already stated a preference for a left sided defender but I guess I could be persuaded. As for Harlee's reaction - such is the life of a professional footballer when only 11 players can make it from a squad of 20+.

What irks me a little though is that somehow Tarkowski is being portrayed as ill-disciplned, has let us down and needs to be taught a lesson - that's nonsense imo, he's a fabulous player.

Spot on, 100% agree. He has to be one of the best defenders we've ever had, he's up there with Michael Turner...........how can you possibly contemplate leaving him out ?