Mark Flekken (Closed Thread)

[BEEcool]

The anti-Flekken agenda from some on here and on Twitter is so boring and predictable.

Anyone who thinks he could have saved either knows FA about goalkeeping.

No agenda here, he's doing fine and I'm confident he'll get better and better.

As for the goals; no chance with the 1st goal - Groß had time to pick his spot and absolutely drilled it in the bottom corner. 2nd goal - Flekken nearly gets fingertips to it and on another night may've saved it. In the same way Maupay may've buried his chance on another night.

 

[North London Bee]

No problem with him, except last night it seemed he took an awful long time to distribute the ball.
He will get better.

That is a deliberate policy

 

[VOA]

Anyone who thinks he could have saved either knows FA about goalkeeping.

Not true.

I played twenty years as a keeper. Not to a great standard, but I do read the game from a goalkeeper's perspective and we Sunday League keepers are an analytical, self-critical bunch.

A goalkeeper will always be pissed off to be beaten low from outside the box. It's a great strike, but i think there are at least five keepers in the league that stop that Groß effort last night. That he didn't dive for it is, I think, damning. Flekken is conceding more strikes from distance than I think he should, strikes that called for good or excellent saves but which were not un-saveable. I am thinking of the second Spurs goal, the second Liverpool goal, last night and at least one from the US tour against Fulham. That's about the quality of his concentration, footwork and reactions.

There have been other quite avoidable or just odd goals conceded- for example against Palace, and Jarrod Bowen's the other week. Not to mention the fiasco at Newcastle and his failure to command his six yard box against Everton. There is enough evidence, at the least, to justify the debate.

I don't actually blame him for the Forest goal, which I think was a freak. His positioning could be justified there.

He's made some good saves, but not many very good ones that I can think of. I think we've seen enough of him now to firm an opinion, and imho he is far from a top end of the Premier League goalkeeper.

I accept there's something in the argument that his biggest problem is that he isn't David Raya, but the extent of the drop off in quality is really disappointing me.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Not true.

I played twenty years as a keeper. Not to a great standard, but I do read the game from a goalkeeper's perspective and we Sunday League keepers are an analytical, self-critical bunch.

A goalkeeper will always be pissed off to be beaten low from outside the box. It's a great strike, but i think there are at least five keepers in the league that stop that Groß effort last night. That he didn't dive for it is, I think, damning. Flekken is conceding more strikes from distance than I think he should, strikes that called for good or excellent saves but which were not un-saveable. I am thinking of the second Spurs goal, the second Liverpool goal, last night and at least one from the US tour against Fulham. That's about the quality of his concentration, footwork and reactions.

There have been other quite avoidable or just odd goals conceded- for example against Palace, and Jarrod Bowen's the other week. Not to mention the fiasco at Newcastle and his failure to command his six yard box against Everton. There is enough evidence, at the least, to justify the debate.

I don't actually blame him for the Forest goal, which I think was a freak. His positioning could be justified there.

He's made some good saves, but not many very good ones that I can think of. I think we've seen enough of him now to firm an opinion, and imho he is far from a top end of the Premier League goalkeeper.

I accept there's something in the argument that his biggest problem is that he isn't David Raya, but the extent of the drop off in quality is really disappointing me.

Is a shot from inside the area considered a shot from distance?

 

[birdy67]

Not true.

I played twenty years as a keeper. Not to a great standard, but I do read the game from a goalkeeper's perspective and we Sunday League keepers are an analytical, self-critical bunch.

A goalkeeper will always be pissed off to be beaten low from outside the box. It's a great strike, but i think there are at least five keepers in the league that stop that Groß effort last night. That he didn't dive for it is, I think, damning. Flekken is conceding more strikes from distance than I think he should, strikes that called for good or excellent saves but which were not un-saveable. I am thinking of the second Spurs goal, the second Liverpool goal, last night and at least one from the US tour against Fulham. That's about the quality of his concentration, footwork and reactions.

There have been other quite avoidable or just odd goals conceded- for example against Palace, and Jarrod Bowen's the other week. Not to mention the fiasco at Newcastle and his failure to command his six yard box against Everton. There is enough evidence, at the least, to justify the debate.

I don't actually blame him for the Forest goal, which I think was a freak. His positioning could be justified there.

He's made some good saves, but not many very good ones that I can think of. I think we've seen enough of him now to firm an opinion, and imho he is far from a top end of the Premier League goalkeeper.

I accept there's something in the argument that his biggest problem is that he isn't David Raya, but the extent of the drop off in quality is really disappointing me.

Time to re-think our entire D of F's policy as this bloke who once turned out for the Dog & Duck 20 years ago reckons Flekken is sh*t! This anti Flekken agenda is becoming so boring!! No way was he at fault for either goal last night and I'm not having it that any Prem keeper would have saved the shot from Pascal Gross. You are talking out of your arse mate!

 

[detours]

A goalkeeper will always be pissed off to be beaten low from outside the box.

A goalkeeper will be pissed off to beaten by any goal, scored from anywhere ?‍

Debate all you want, it's tiresome and as someone said earlier on this thread, just confirmation bias. Obsessively poring over every goal we concede to type "well, an elite keeper saves that" is just so tiresome and comes up like clockwork on every single goal he concedes.

You're saying he should have saved the first goal, other people on Twitter are saying "He can't do anything about the first, but he MUST save the second". Honestly I just find it very strange to say the least.

If Thomas Frank thinks Flekken's good enough, he's good enough for me.

 

[IzakAndrews]

Tbh I don't think he had much chance with either goal last night. He has had his shakes since his signing but I think it was always going to be a tough ask to follow on from Raya. Following the best keeper in the clubs history is a tall order for anyone. I do believe he will come good in time, and I imagine Thomas does as well.

Regardless I think faulting him for either goal last night was very harsh. the first one was a great finish and the second one KLP (I believe it was) was marking a man twice his size and was just out jumped in the end, when you go across your line like that it is difficult to go back the other way with the dive. It would have taken a wonder save. Raya spoilt us with those but not many keepers can pull it out the hat every time like he did. Blaming the keeper for goals like that isn't fair since it is a multitude of small mistakes. (allowing mitoma inside, Wissa not helping double up so ftt could follow the runner to stop the cross, being stretched so their tall lad could get the run on our shortest player) It was just the fine margins of football imo not anyone's fault. Just good Brighton play forcing our mistakes. That how i saw it anyway

 

[North London Bee]

Candidly at the moment I think that his distribution is A+ which is key to how we play and his shot stopping, anticipation, domination of the box, anticipation, footwork etc is about B-.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Not true.

I played twenty years as a keeper. Not to a great standard, but I do read the game from a goalkeeper's perspective and we Sunday League keepers are an analytical, self-critical bunch.

A goalkeeper will always be pissed off to be beaten low from outside the box. It's a great strike, but i think there are at least five keepers in the league that stop that Groß effort last night. That he didn't dive for it is, I think, damning. Flekken is conceding more strikes from distance than I think he should, strikes that called for good or excellent saves but which were not un-saveable. I am thinking of the second Spurs goal, the second Liverpool goal, last night and at least one from the US tour against Fulham. That's about the quality of his concentration, footwork and reactions.

There have been other quite avoidable or just odd goals conceded- for example against Palace, and Jarrod Bowen's the other week. Not to mention the fiasco at Newcastle and his failure to command his six yard box against Everton. There is enough evidence, at the least, to justify the debate.

I don't actually blame him for the Forest goal, which I think was a freak. His positioning could be justified there.

He's made some good saves, but not many very good ones that I can think of. I think we've seen enough of him now to firm an opinion, and imho he is far from a top end of the Premier League goalkeeper.

I accept there's something in the argument that his biggest problem is that he isn't David Raya, but the extent of the drop off in quality is really disappointing me.

I have to say I agree.

It also occurred to me, I cannot recall a single really good save he's made since he joined. I mean the type that isn't just "expected" of a top league professional goalkeeper. I would be delighted to be proven wrong!

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I have to say I agree.

It also occurred to me, I cannot recall a single really good save he's made since he joined. I mean the type that isn't just "expected" of a top league professional goalkeeper. I would be delighted to be proven wrong!

Two decent saves yesterday - one diving down to his left and another at the near post.

 

[North London Bee]

I hink a lot of our perceptions are down to the fact that we do not concede too many big chances or indeed shots this minimising the opportunities for him to shine!

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

That is a deliberate policy

? Yep, draw them in then release one of our players.

 

[Rob-BEE]

Two decent saves yesterday - one diving down to his left and another fat the near post.

Decent but not "really good". They were saves you'd expect any pro keeper to make.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Nobody in the world is saving Brighton’s first goal. Delusional to think otherwise. If even David Seaman suggested that I would tell him to give his big head a great big shake.

 

[Beefuddled]

Decent but not "really good". They were saves you'd expect any pro keeper to make.

But remember good keepers make great saves look simple and don't pose for the cameras, so they often go unappreciated. I have certainly seen a couple of great saves and blocks by Flekken but they don't get a mention.

Before he became famous for his 'worldie' saves Gordon Banks was a prime example of that, for anyone old enough to remember. Peter Shilton too. Even though both of them also let in a lot of goals during the seasons they were playing for teams with leaky defences (eg Leicester City). They were calm and efficient and a lot of their top saves looked pretty straightforward and usually followed by a quick jump up and distribution without any fuss.

So I'd have to say Flekken looks a very straightforward kind of guy and that's my type of keeper, none of this modern rolling around on the ground and posing. He gets my vote

 

[A Real Mysteron]

First goal.- No one is saving that. No one.

Second goal- My first thought was that he would have been dissapointed not to get across to it quicker to get more of a hand on it.
It wasn’t the firmest of headers.
Only he will really know.

I also played Sunday league in goal for a couple of seasons when I couldn’t hack it at full back anymore.
I was absolute pony on crosses, catching, but I had/ have mad reflexes. I would have given myself a chance with the second one.

 

[taxi driver]

Candidly at the moment I think that his distribution is A+ which is key to how we play and his shot stopping, anticipation, domination of the box, anticipation, footwork etc is about B-.

I would agree with that assessment

 

[Rob-BEE]

Candidly at the moment I think that his distribution is A+ which is key to how we play and his shot stopping, anticipation, domination of the box, anticipation, footwork etc is about B-.

I missed this earlier but I agree 100%. And I guess the club pretty much knew that when they brought him in.

 

[kevalutonbee]

Some idiot on social media has just told me that not only is Flekken is worse than Ashley Bates he is the worst keeper we have ever had!!!!!!

 

[pumpkin pie]

Some idiot on social media has just told me that not only is Flekken is worse than Ashley Bates he is the worst keeper we have ever had!!!!!!

Bonham is worse.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

The game is all about opinions, for me he is good with feet, but looks flat footed at times, something I thought about him
since first seeing him, he does not seem to be up on his toes enough.
IMO he could have done better with several chances since he has been here, hopefully he will improve as time goes on

 

[HMDBFC]

I reckon Flekken was unsighted by Pinnock for the first goal at Brighton hence he was flat footed because he never set himself ready for the shot. That said, it was such a clean strike into the corner he might have struggled to reach it anyway...

 

[BaildonBee]

What Flekken does bring is the ability to continue to play from the back like we did with Raya. We saw in the season when Raya was injured that keepers who cannot play out cause us to lose counter attacking impetus. If I was being critical, I do not like keepers who are rooted to the spot when shot comes in - even if that means doing a ridiculous dive after the ball has gone like Raya did at Wembley. I am pretty confident our coaches are improving him. So far with the ball at his feet he has looked excellent.

 

[Banana]

I reckon Flekken was unsighted by Pinnock for the first goal at Brighton hence he was flat footed because he never set himself ready for the shot. That said, it was such a clean strike into the corner he might have struggled to reach it anyway...

There is no chance he would have reached it.

 

[Vid]

Twizzle would not have reached the 1st goal.

 

[w7 bee]

There is no chance he would have reached it.

Agreed , if he had we'd be talking Banks '70 .

 

[hairman]

Bonham is worse.

What a brilliant contribution.

 

[longtimeagobee]

Twizzle would not have reached the 1st goal.

There’s one for the teenagers?

 

[Bigbee]

There’s one for the teenagers?

I called my first cat that , second one was Brentford

 

[Bridge Bee]

What Flekken does bring is the ability to continue to play from the back like we did with Raya. We saw in the season when Raya was injured that keepers who cannot play out cause us to lose counter attacking impetus. If I was being critical, I do not like keepers who are rooted to the spot when shot comes in - even if that means doing a ridiculous dive after the ball has gone like Raya did at Wembley. I am pretty confident our coaches are improving him. So far with the ball at his feet he has looked excellent.

The challenge is that Raya was passing the ball to Rico and Hickey, natural full backs happy receiving the ball in those positions. Flekken is passing to Roerslev and Janelt who are nowhere near as good on the ball. Raya also had the out ball to Toney when we couldn’t play short. Toney would either win the ball or win a foul and get us up the pitch. Especially away from home. Neither of those things happening at the moment. Not Flekken’s fault by any means.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

The challenge is that Raya was passing the ball to Rico and Hickey, natural full backs happy receiving the ball in those positions. Flekken is passing to Roerslev and Janelt who are nowhere near as good on the ball. Raya also had the out ball to Toney when we couldn’t play short. Toney would either win the ball or win a foul and get us up the pitch. Especially away from home. Neither of those things happening at the moment. Not Flekken’s fault by any means.

Losing Henry as an outlet has been a massive disadvantage.

 

[pumpkin pie]

What a brilliant contribution.

To the away team lol

 

[Pixelator]

Good goalkeeper, sh*t goalkeeper, he's our goalkeeper and we should all be behind him.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Good goalkeeper, sh*t goalkeeper, he's our goalkeeper and we should all be behind him.

We'd get hit by the ball a lot if we were behind him. ?

 

[mundee4england]

Couple of decent saves in the second half.

 

[Delbee]

Couple of decent saves in the second half.

Kept the score low and gave us a fair chance of a point

 

[james121bees]

Mark Flekken is literally our new version of David Button. Flekken will always have calamity about him I really don’t doubt it. Raya was and will be our best keeper we’ve had for a long long time maybe ever he just got it and was one of us…..

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Mark Flekken is literally our new version of David Button. Flekken will always have calamity about him I really don’t doubt it. Raya was and will be our best keeper we’ve had for a long long time maybe ever he just got it and was one of us…..

Did he make any mistakes today?

 

[mundee4england]

Thought he had a good game today, nothing he could do about the worldie and his saves in the second half kept us in the game.

 

[IslandBee]

Apparently, some tw*tt*er boys and girls are blaming him for the goal!!! ?

 

[james121bees]

Did he make any mistakes today?

He stands with his arms aloft a hell of a lot of the time and it either goes in or just edges wide. So yes many mistakes in his game not enough prevention

 

[Les Beeavinu]

He stands with his arms aloft a hell of a lot of the time and it either goes in or just edges wide. So yes many mistakes in his game not enough prevention

Not sure that answered the question tbh.

 

[wanderer paul]

Mark Flekken is literally our new version of David Button. Flekken will always have calamity about him I really don’t doubt it. Raya was and will be our best keeper we’ve had for a long long time maybe ever he just got it and was one of us…..

what a short memory you have. look back at Raya's time here................ yep, he made some right f*** ups too. Flekken has made fewer and is also in a division above. Raya took 2 years to come good............... so short sighted. Lack of memory too,.

 

[PGH_Bee]

I think one of the reasons he looks so much worse at making saves is that when he thinks something is missing the net, he just watches it. Raya would still leap after it and pull his reach back if he realizes it is going wide. I do think Raya is better but I also thinks he LOOKS much better

 

[TOXIC BEE]

Raya took 2 years to come good............... so short sighted. Lack of memory too,.

No he really didn’t. He made the odd mistake, but less frequently than Flekken, and was comfortably one of the best keepers in the championship. He was also 23 when he joined us, not 30, nobody was expecting the finished article.

 

[DaveP]

Thought he was very good today and kept us in it in the second half. Initially thought he should have dived for the goal but seeing the replay possibly a bit harsh. Without him today we get beaten easily

 

[aslan]

Mark Flekken is literally our new version of David Button. Flekken will always have calamity about him I really don’t doubt it. Raya was and will be our best keeper we’ve had for a long long time maybe ever he just got it and was one of us…..

"he just got it and was one of us" guess that's why he let that Foolham free kick in? Wanted the fans there when we played in the PL? ?

 

[Rob-BEE]

Made one decent save today where he closed the angle quickly and made himself big. I think that's one of his strengths from what I've seen so far.

No keeper is saving their goal. Unless they happened to be standing at the back post waiting for it.

 

[james121bees]

"he just got it and was one of us" guess that's why he let that Foolham free kick in? Wanted the fans there when we played in the PL? ?

Yeah what a blessing in disguise he let that foolham free kick in mind you….. Thanks David again for making one of the best decisions a goalkeeper has done

 

[Sutton Bee]

I think the age points are not really relevant, Raya had been a first choice goalkeeper before joining us at 23 or whatever age, they’ve played about the same number of games with Flekken being older than him.

Also Flekken was a lot older when he finally became a first choice. Todays goal was not an error there’s no point diving for it he’s not saving it, also if he spent his time taking up positions where he’d save that shot he’d concede significantly worse goals and much softer goals because he’d be stood leaning against the post. No goalkeeper is saving that shot, some people need to give over it’s ridiculous the confirmation bias.

Raya was not one of us he wanted to go 4 years ago after his “positioning error” cost us promotion against the Tarquins and Arsenal offered us pittance for him. He’s never been committed to the cause anymore than he needed to be as a player under contract. Even in all his interviews after leaving i haven’t seen him say anything about his time at Brentford its like we did nothing to get him where he is today. Raya may be the best keeper we’ve had and possibly the best we’ll have for some years, I have no expectation that Flekken will exceed him in that respect, it’s clear Flekken is not a shot stopper or a conventional goalkeeper, the club know what they signed when we signed him. His distribution is his best asset and he’ll be expected to improve everything else. Strakosha is not a viable replacement his technique on everything is much worse and more unconventional than Flekken. Flekken hasn’t been at fault for anywhere near as many of the goals he’s being blamed for aside from Forest which I will accept as he was caught in no man’s land.

We've conceded a lot of soft goals and as a keeper I’d have been disappointed to concede a lot of them but more importantly almost all the goals that he’s getting a kicking for have been avoidable if we defended properly.

My main issue is that we had a crap pre season messing around on that America tournament instead of a more focused and development program, we’re not defending on the front foot, the team is depleted, more starters are injured than not the least of our concerns is that our goalkeeper didn’t save a shot that was as top corner as you can put it. We’re not going down we all want to win games and hopefully come January a break in the season will give us a chance to have a second pre season get these injured lot back to fitness and players who need some confidence a chance to develop as well.

There’s my two cents worth I don’t care if anybody agrees.