Should Scott Go?

[Southern Bee]

I know but half of AS's tenure is made up of results in League 2.

Fair point, at least he did the job, unlike Butcher!!

 

[detours]

Out of interest and playing devils adv how many games without a win would you tolerate?

I would say about 5 straight league defeats on the bounce would convince me that he needed to go this season. But the most we have lost in a row in the league is 2, and that was on only one occasion.

He isn't going to get sacked, not while we are grinding out results, it may not be the most pretty, but we are slowly climbing the table.

 

[detours]

I know but half of AS's tenure is made up of results in League 2.

Come on, don't denigrate his achievement. Hopefully the other half will be made up by premier league games lol

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Come on, don't denigrate his achievement. Hopefully the other half will be made up by premier league games lol

I'm really not trying to, SB put up some good and honest hard facts, I just added a fact about the facts.FACT!

 

[love and mercy]

I think that maybe we should all lay off of him now.
seems we have gotten through to him about how we all feel about the poor football and organization.
He certainly bit back at us so lets call a truce for a while

 

[KcBee]

Since April 1st 1980, Brentford have had 19 different managers, including Andy Scott.

Andy Scott has a win % of 40, which puts him 4th in the table, after Steve Coppell, Martin Allen and Phil Holder. Out of these three managers and Andy Scott, Andy has managed the most games, with the exception of Phil Holder, who Andy will pass when we play tomorrow night.

This therefore proves that he and Phil Holder, are the most consistent managers over a long spell of time from the past 31 years.

With this in mind, you could say Andy Scott is the 2nd best manager Brentford have had over the past 31 years and he has achived a hell of a lot:

- Save Brentford from Relegation to the Conference
- Win League two by 6 clear points the following season
- Finish 9th in the first season back in League 1 (A super achivement considering the sides in the league)
- Take Brentford 2 minutes away from the Carling Cup Quarter Finals after beating Hull, Everton and so so nearly Birmingham.

I may also remind you, we still got three of the bottom four to play, so we SHOULD be able to pick up at least 7 points, if not, 9 points from those 3 games which will put us in or around the play offs with a bit of luck.

As Andy said, he wants us to be United and lets be honest, we all want the best for Brentford and while the football we play may not always be the best, the results he has got us are up with the Coppell's and the Allen's.

Keep faith.

Great post

 

[nick logan]

seems we have gotten through to him about how we all feel about the poor football and organization.

rofl

Like he cares what maniacs who want him sacked after losing 3 in 13 think.

Lets nip this one in the bud. The upturn in form recently in is spite of, not because of fans who moan on here.

 

[vcmazz]

I think that maybe we should all lay off of him now.
seems we have gotten through to him about how we all feel about the poor football and organization.
He certainly bit back at us so lets call a truce for a while

rofl

The upturn in form recently in is spite of, not because of fans who moan on here.

I'm not convinced you're right Nick. If I'd taken the slating he has lately I would be virtually threatening to blow the player's balls off if they didn't raise their game and prove us w*****s wrong :shrug:.

I tend to agree with love and mercy pretty much word for word. Point made, now give the bloke chance to breath and get on with his work, and we'll see what happens next :yes:.

 

[Houghton Bee]

Lets nip this one in the bud. The upturn in form recently in is spite of, not because of fans who moan on here.

problem is a draw or loss tomorrow and all the plums on here will be out in force

 

[vcmazz]

problem is a draw or loss tomorrow and all the plums on here will be out in force

No chance. It would have to be three points to make me get my plums out .

 

[IslandBee]

If you look at where we were last season, and where we are now, we are actually better off in terms of points and league position, we have also had a decent League and JPT run. Last season after 17 games we were 10 points away from the play offs. This season we are 5 points from the play offs. For people to say 'AS isn't the man to take the club forward' ...this season has so far been more successful than last, so what are you basing it on?

The football we played last season was very inconsistent, and not the most flowing, interesting stuff to watch, just like this season has been. The only difference is that last season we had no expectation other than to survive and did much better than we thought we would. This season we have a little more money and people want us to achieve instantly. In my opinion it is going to take a little longer, and Scott is taking us in the right direction (not just my opinion, look at the facts).

As long as we are stable for the time being, I am fine with AS being manager. Yes, in the future I think that with the budget we should expect a charge for the championship, in this season or the next. But I am not a success-whore that wants everything to happen straight away. I understand that we have had a turnover of 12 incoming players and 8 outgoing, and that Scott is building a team, and it might take longer than one season before we are hitting all the right notes.

Calling for the manager to go, while we are doing better than last season, with an all-new team is a complete joke IMHO. The performances have been up and down, but it is still early days and I will reserve judgement until the end of the season, probably whilst cheering the bees on at Wembley (we'll get there somehow). Whilst we are closer to the play-offs than relegation, Scott's job is safe.

Up until a couple of weeks ago, I would have simply put 'good post' and a thumbs up to this. I still agree with much of it. However, after the Bournemouth and Franchise games I am a little less sanguine and need more convincing. The first of these games I could excuse as just one of those things - a bad performance among a number of good ones. However, after the MK game my concerns about the quality of our squad grew. Is this a group of players that will definitely mount a sustained challenge for the play-offs? This has to be our target this year, but I am less sure than I would like to be that it will be achieved. Plymouth was an excellent result and I was heartened to see that the performance was good, but I still think we need a couple of players at least, most particularly a dominant midfielder who can impose himself and the team's style on the game. AS *has* had an increased budget so it is at least partially his responsibility that we don't have this type of player in place already. I think he needs to act on this quickly, otherwise I expect us to continue on the up-and-down, inconsistent trajectory that we have been on so far. If that is ultimately how the season pans out, I would not expect AS to survive the summer.

 

[KGB]

Island,

Good post. I think tbf that it sums up what a lot of the 'doubters' feel.

I don't know AS & if he is successful I would be delighted. It is the definition of 'successful' that I think is the issue.

I had hoped that our development would be further along than we are & if we finish in a lower position than last year I will be disappointed, unless there are clear signs that we h ave developed our squad & style of play. At present I don't see that happening.

Others seem to accept that mid-table is our place & ever more shall be so. I can't accept that personally - particularly with our current level investment -& agree that we need at least one (& probably 2) CMs and also a more dynamic striker than we have at present.

 

[Streetboy]

I believe this pretty much boils down to two things - a dislike by many of Scott as a person, coupled with the increased expectation brought about by an increased budget. Because let's face it, 13th in the Third Division is, bar a few seasons, pretty much par the course for Brentford for the past 30 years. So too is poor football, with enough intermitent hard-working displays to get us by. Would there be more patience with Scott if he had less money? Almost certainly. Would there be if he was seen as being a 'nicer bloke'? Possibly not as much, Leroy and Wally were both decent guys after all, but his 'arrogance' didn't seem to matter much during the good times. However, as IslandBee says, the past means nothing now, and we are now in a position to look forward rather than backwards thanks to Matthew Benham, and I don't see him as the type to wield the axe if we're not in the play-offs by Christmas. Unless we're rooted at the other end of the table, I believe Scott has done enough to warrant the season, and I firmly believe we will be looking at a mid-table finish this season. I guess the question will be then, is that viewed as as success or failure, and is Scott the right man to take us to the next level, ie a play-offs challenge?

 

[magicbees]

Good post but when the above poster agrees, you are in trouble.

Weren't MA, SC and NH's records taken from results in higher divsions and without the fantastic support of the board and MB?

SC had a very negative and awful man called Noades in the background whereas AS has had that nice MB and what has been called the best set of boardroom peeps ever.
MA had who exactly?

 

[magicbees]

rofl

Like he cares what maniacs who want him sacked after losing 3 in 13 think.

Lets nip this one in the bud. The upturn in form recently in is spite of, not because of fans who moan on here.

Its not the results, it the crap football we have to watch Nick, thats why so many people have been moaning. It is an entertainment business and if we don't entertain people will not come back. I don't expect us to win everyweek, but I want to be entertained.

 

[nick logan]

I'm not convinced you're right Nick. If I'd taken the slating he has lately I would be virtually threatening to blow the player's balls off if they didn't raise their game and prove us w*****s wrong :shrug:.

You may be right but i am convinced that him finding out about the stick he has been getting from some would have been a major surprise to him and rightly so IMHO. Any manager would be gutted after recent results to learn of bad feeling.

He must look at his recent reocrd and the turnaround from early season disaster and be a bit nonplussed to get stick to say the least.

 

[Houghton Bee]

Its not the results, it the crap football we have to watch Nick, thats why so many people have been moaning. .

if we were in the same position with 'entertaining football' i strongly suspect the same people would be complaining regardless, maybe not yourself but certainly an element would be.

 

[nick logan]

Its not the results, it the crap football we have to watch Nick, thats why so many people have been moaning. It is an entertainment business and if we don't entertain people will not come back. I don't expect us to win everyweek, but I want to be entertained.

I honestly don't think we play this "hoofball" that often. It tends to be when we go behind at home. I think we have played good stuff in lots of games.

I do however think that recent home games have not been great and anyone who only does home games may be a bit mystified.

 

[Braemar's Northoltian Bees]

if we were in the same position with 'entertaining football' i strongly suspect the same people would be complaining regardless, maybe not yourself but certainly an element would be.

most definately

 

[scruff puppy pup]

We have progressed every season under him,

You could also say that each season under AS, we have been better after the New Year. We seem to lose fewer games from then until the end of the season.

 

[vcmazz]

You could also say that each season under AS, we have been better after the New Year. We seem to lose fewer games from then until the end of the season.

Yes. After he's borrowed half of the Premier League lol. Be interesting to see if he can pull that off again this year? If so, could be interesting :shrug:.

 

[RoyalOakBee]

Unless we're rooted at the other end of the table, I believe Scott has done enough to warrant the season, and I firmly believe we will be looking at a mid-table finish this season. I guess the question will be then, is that viewed as as success or failure, and is Scott the right man to take us to the next level, ie a play-offs challenge?

I find it hard to believe that a journalist with an in depth knowledge of the club can make this statement, let alone accept it.
The tag line pre season was a squad capable of making at least a push for the play-offs! Why would expectations change after Benham has pumped in £3m and possibly more with dwindling attendances being down to the standard of football that Scott's team is churning out?

If he was capable of taking us to the next level, then that is where we would be now. Better players, better football, more home victories not less and less away defeats not more and most importantly more paying customers through the turnstiles.

This team will be succesful at one thing this season and that is inconsistency and IF all I have to look forward to is a mid table finish well I wont bother and I will take another look next season.

The JPT means nothing, all I want is to be entertained and for the team to be performing in a manner that matches pre season ambition. Pushing for a place in the Play-OFFS.

 

[KcBee]

I'd love to say I am surprised by some of the comments on here but to be honest I am not. I tend to float around Griffin Park and sit in random places each week/season. To be honest I keep getting amazed by some of the comments I hear in the stands and it is absolutely no surprise that it gets transfered on to here.... the best ones in recent weeks are "Woodman is the worst left back ever to pull on a Brentford shirt" and "Charlie McDonald is not even a decent conference striker" It is those fans that see nothing else now other than Scott is the worst thing to ever happen to Brentford.

 

[IslandBee]

I honestly don't think we play this "hoofball" that often. It tends to be when we go behind at home. I think we have played good stuff in lots of games.

I do however think that recent home games have not been great and anyone who only does home games may be a bit mystified.

It's just one of those myths that has caught on or is it just laziness?

 

[Southern Bee]

I'd love to say I am surprised by some of the comments on here but to be honest I am not. I tend to float around Griffin Park and sit in random places each week/season. To be honest I keep getting amazed by some of the comments I hear in the stands and it is absolutely no surprise that it gets transfered on to here.... the best ones in recent weeks are "Woodman is the worst left back ever to pull on a Brentford shirt" and "Charlie McDonald is not even a decent conference striker" It is those fans that see nothing else now other than Scott is the worst thing to ever happen to Brentford.

It is very intresting on the 17:09 from Brentford after each game, some classics in recent weeks:

"Alexander is premiership quality"

"Ben Hamer will be in the England squad sooner or later"

"Kirk Hudson is the best player at the club"

Comical

 

[blunstone]

This may not satisfy the rabid Andy Scottites but give Scott 3 games to see if we can re discover October's form before putting an untried novice in charge.

what a great post that was!

 

[detours]

I think Scott has well and truly proved the doubters wrong now, he has changed the tactics and we are climbing the league. Excellent result tonight.

 

[Southern Bee]

Point of Ref 4Bees Fans: After 18 games last season: 19pts (18th) 23pts off leaders (Leeds). THIS SEASON: 26pts (13th) ONLY 11pts off B&HA!

After 18 games last season we were lying in 18th with 19 points, this season we lie in 13th, with 26 points.

Last season at this stage we were 23 points off the leaders, where as this year, we are 11 points off Brighton, who are top.

Says it all...

 

[macsalisbee]

Really pleased with recent results-sometimes it's best to sit back and hold comments. Often just after a poor performance is the worst time to post! I was'nt sure that AS had the nous to weather the storm but he has stood up for himself and the players have responded. Time is a luxury in football and AS is fortunate that the powers that be seem to have taken the longer term view.
A friend of mine and a fellow Bee is having serious mental health problems at the moment which puts the whole AS affair into context for me. Onward and upward!

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I think Scott has well and truly proved the doubters wrong now, he has changed the tactics and we are climbing the league. Excellent result tonight.

Did he change them or was his hand forced, why was he spoken to last week if everything is so rosy?

 

[detours]

Did he change them or was his hand forced, why was he spoken to last week if everything is so rosy?

Sorry if I am being ignorant, but who spoke to him and what did they talk to him about? Genuinely I am not in the know about intimate matters regarding the club, but I did assume that the manager was in charge of tactics? I cant imagine he is some sort of puppet

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Sorry if I am being ignorant, but who spoke to him and what did they talk to him about? Genuinely I am not in the know about intimate matters regarding the club, but I did assume that the manager was in charge of tactics? I cant imagine he is some sort of puppet

Injuries forced his hand, I can't imagine he is a puppet either.

 

[detours]

Injuries forced his hand, I can't imagine he is a puppet either.

Ah and Hamer being in traffic gave Lee his break. The mysterious way fortune has blessed us lately lol

I'll take a change in Scotts tactics any way they come. I don't care if he has a dream about 7 ears of corn, and as such decides to play Kirk Hudson in goal and we beat Notts County 4-0 with all scored off the referees arse.

 

[magicbees]

Whoever spoke to him or if he decided himself to change the tatics or was forced to by injuries, I don't care I'm just pleased we are winning and also just as important to me trying to play football. Don't expect us to play the Barcelona way, but hoof ball was terrible to watch.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Ah and Hamer being in traffic gave Lee his break. The mysterious way fortune has blessed us lately lol

I'll take a change in Scotts tactics any way they come. I don't care if he has a dream about 7 ears of corn, and as such decides to play Kirk Hudson in goal and we beat Notts County 4-0 with all scored off the referees arse.

We have to beat those w*nkers, Lee Hughes and that Baldy Bishop that parades as a footballer need loads of abuse for their disgusting attitudes, I promise to be back on form and all over that pair.

Lee was class and didn't deserve his place on the back of traffic, I hope he continues to impress.

 

[malvernbee]

The anti-AS gpg brigade deserve a large pat on the back for the recent upturn in results.

 

[Stanley]

Point of Ref 4Bees Fans: After 18 games last season: 19pts (18th) 23pts off leaders (Leeds). THIS SEASON: 26pts (13th) ONLY 11pts off B&HA!

After 18 games last season we were lying in 18th with 19 points, this season we lie in 13th, with 26 points.

Last season at this stage we were 23 points off the leaders, where as this year, we are 11 points off Brighton, who are top.

Says it all...

To be balanced this division is totally different this year from last.

You should judge a manager over the whole season, long way to go yet. So far we are doing OK in the league and quite decent in two cups.

 

[detours]

The anti-AS gpg brigade deserve a large pat on the back for the recent upturn in results.

I think the Anti Anti-Scott brigade needs a pat on the back for persisting with their robust defence of the manager

And yes NB, Lee should have earned his place on merit, but he is keeping it on merit at least. We need to sh*t all over those Notts County amateurs in 10 days time

Onwards and upwards

 

[IslandBee]

I think Scott has well and truly proved the doubters wrong now, he has changed the tactics and we are climbing the league. Excellent result tonight.

It was an excellent result and our record over the last two months has been very good, notwithstanding some very dodgy performances along the way. But we have to keep going. We are no higher than I expected us to be at this stage and I am not sure yet that our tactical problems have been entirely resolved. AS has certainly shown flexibility and resilience over the last couple of weeks. I admire his passion and determination, even if it manifests itself in strange ways sometimes. And the idea that the dressing room is not with him now seems more ridiculous than ever. But more is needed if we are really to mount a serious play-off challenge. While it is great that Saunders is proving his doubters (including me) wrong, we still lack sufficeint quality in the middle of the field. I will not start getting too excited until we rectify that.

 

[WarrenBee]

AS for November manager of the month.

 

[Braemar's Northoltian Bees]

AS for November manager of the month.

maybe just a disappointing runner up

 

[cliffbee]

Another lucky away win by a rubbish team with a useless manager. Clearly the detractors are so right!

 

[RoyalOakBee]

Point of Ref 4Bees Fans: After 18 games last season: 19pts (18th) 23pts off leaders (Leeds). THIS SEASON: 26pts (13th) ONLY 11pts off B&HA!

After 18 games last season we were lying in 18th with 19 points, this season we lie in 13th, with 26 points.

Last season at this stage we were 23 points off the leaders, where as this year, we are 11 points off Brighton, who are top.

Says it all...

Fair point well made. Just a couple of questions though........

How many points behind Champions did we finish?

How many points off a Play Off place did we finish?

 

[Kingston Bee]

Surely its time now to close this thread. We have proved that we can beat the best in this division, are ahead of last years efforts, some great cup games this season, and yes all this as well as being inconsistent. We are well placed to make it a good end to the season, and if we can improve the home form will make the POs. The problem I have is that every time we lose a game (and we will) its bash Scott time, it needs to stop if we are going to move forward. Appreciate the performances have been hit and miss (hopefully improving especially last 2 games), but as previously said its a results business. To coin a phrase 'to keep on with the negativity' will only damage the club in the long term.

 

[Ascot Bee]

Surely its time now to close this thread. We have proved that we can beat the best in this division, are ahead of last years efforts, some great cup games this season, and yes all this as well as being inconsistent. We are well placed to make it a good end to the season, and if we can improve the home form will make the POs. The problem I have is that every time we lose a game (and we will) its bash Scott time, it needs to stop if we are going to move forward. Appreciate the performances have been hit and miss (hopefully improving especially last 2 games), but as previously said its a results business. To coin a phrase 'to keep on with the negativity' will only damage the club in the long term.

:thetruth:

 

[bexleybee]

Second best away record in the league would suggest his removal be a little harsh. If we can rediscover our home form and restore "Fortress GP" like the previous 2 seasons, we'll be serious Play Off contenders.

Scott in!!

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Wasn't it under Callaghan where we ended up with a better away record than home?

 

[rwBee]

anyone still want AS out?

4 away league wins in a row...

 

[Streetboy]

I find it hard to believe that a journalist with an in depth knowledge of the club can make this statement, let alone accept it. The tag line pre season was a squad capable of making at least a push for the play-offs! Why would expectations change after Benham has pumped in £3m and possibly more with dwindling attendances being down to the standard of football that Scott's team is churning out?
.

Did you go last night? It certainly wasn't Colchester playing the better football. Perhaps you could talk me through out second goal? In fact, here's an irony, the home fans were slating their manager for playing the long ball too much, and they were third in the table! Recent away performances have been superb, and I believe it is no coincidence that the accusations of hoofball come after home games, which I admit have been poor recently, but where the moans and groans start all too quickly (or even before the match had kicked off, as I witnessed against MK Dons). I admit something needs to change in home performances, but I've seen enough in the away displays to confidently stand by my original statement.

 

[westwing]

Scott In !!

Bring on The Saints