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Stats.....what stats?

Don't all shoot me down,

Can someone please tell me what stats will be used in this new philosophy? I'm sure only one stat counts when playing football,, and that's...more goals than the opponent?

We are all well aware we just had a superb season playing some smashing football and I know it's been said on here before .... Why change that?
Yes, the past is the past now and we all have to move on and hope this new management team have the same desire and man management skills as the last lot!

But my point is, this is football , nobody or no stat can determine which way the ball will roll, no stat can tell you we will gain or concede a last minute penalty, no stat can tell you who will be sent off, ect ect,

I'm not the "old skool" typo and have played at a good level for 20 years (including bees CoE for 5 years) and still playing so I do know my bit about the game.
I hope it's not a complete failure obviously but I'm curious to know what stats will win us matches??
 

Stats.....what stats?

have faith..
 

Stats.....what stats?

I won't shoot you down...it is a forum for discussion after all.

But I will say that many of us don't know the stats that they are specifically looking for, only that it is stats that they feel get overlooked and are undervalued at identifying players who can play at a higher level than they are now. We will never really know everything they look for though as that would only reveal it to the opposition as well and make us easier to copy.

The stats isn't the only thing being identified however, personality traits, dressing room value, applicable style of football etc is also a big factor.
 

Stats.....what stats?

For me, the approach is defined by this quote from Marinus on the OS about todays signing

Marinus Dijkhuizen, Brentford FC Head Coach, added: "One of my first tasks as Head Coach was to review some of the players that the recruitment team had been tracking last season.

“Yoann really caught the eye and after discussions we decided to make his signing one of our priorities.


So the stats point the way, or provides the clues, then consensus judgment kicks in. I doubt it was very different under Warbs days, I think MB/MW fell out on football matters and the reasons given were really an easy but not 100% accurate explanation
 

Stats.....what stats?

Don't all shoot me down,
I'm sure only one stat counts when playing football,, and that's...more goals than the opponent?

I know you're being flippant, but if that was all it came down to over the course of the season then Derby would be in the playoffs and not us.

Don't all shoot me down,
We are all well aware we just had a superb season playing some smashing football and I know it's been said on here before .... Why change that?

Because MB feels we can be even better. Bear in mind a lot of the players that took part in that superb season were signed under this philosophy, we're not starting from scratch.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Basically Dan, the stats are exactly as Invipai says - to bring in undervalued players for a good price, get them playing to their full potential to improve the club as a whole and when they reach that potential, sell them on for a very good profit to keep the club sustainable.
We as fans don't know the stats, or how they will be used fully, as MB is a very secretive and professional man, and doesn't want it all in the public domain as it is giving us a lead on all the others currently.
It WILL work, have faith, and enjoy the evolution of Brentford (and English) football.
 

Stats.....what stats?

The feeling within the management team is that the analysis of certain stats will give us a competitive advantage in achieving the main stat you pointed out - scoring more than the opposition and winning the game. They are obviously very reluctant to share which stats these are with the wider world, as this takes away our competitive advantage. So, I doubt we will ever know exactly what stats are used.

Fair to say, however, the stats are quite a bit more precise than the usual stuff we see online (shots on target, offsides, etc). I think it would be more (a complete guess) - how many goals conceeded occur when a certain player has possesion of the ball for more than 5 seconds with an opponent within 20 yards. If the percentage of goals conceeded due to this is greater than a certain amount, they may then look train the player to release the ball quicker, or they may look to recruit someone who has a better percentage (i.e. they may not loose the ball under pressure so often). This is all with the same aim you initially pointed out: "scoring more (conceeding less) than the opposition".
 

Stats.....what stats?

But my point is, this is football , nobody or no stat can determine which way the ball will roll, no stat can tell you we will gain or concede a last minute penalty, no stat can tell you who will be sent off, ect ect,

We probably don't even know 1% of what is being used. What I glean though is that you can't determine who's going to gain or concede a last minute penalty, but you can tell who's more likely to (which is what gives the advantage).
 

Stats.....what stats?

There are a few interesting articles in the Midtjylland thread here that explain the concepts behind things rather well

https://decorrespondent.nl/2607/How...is-Danish-football-club/230219386155-d2948861
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/15/soccer-analytics-brentford-midtjylland-matthew-benham

The idea behind stats v traditional scouting is that scouting can actually give a misleading impression - watch an average player have his two best games of the season and a manager might be tempted to sign a flop, watch a good player having a bad day and you could miss a gem, with the stats you identify the quality and then use more traditional methods to confirm this.

Admittedly the "no stats all star" concept Midtjylland used to sign Tim Sparv might be a difficult concept to explain but it has worked in Denmark and I have every confidence it will work here.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Football like baseball before it is changing. In the past experience glean from playing and watching players was what was needed. Now all the top teams have people to analyse players, games etc. not only do the teams know so much more about a player but also the value of certain on field activities. For example, how effective are corners or crosses.

MB has masses of stats that he uses to build models. As these have a commercial advantage we will never see them. Also we only have access to a small part of the stats generated by such companies as Opta.

There is quite a well visited part of the GPG on statistics. It has a lively exchange of views. May be worth looking at that. At present we are predicted by Statto, a leading supplier of data, to finish eighth with 67 points. For automatic we would need 73. According to Statto it will be very close at the top.

http://www.statto.com/football/ratings/england/league-championship

Enjoy.
 
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Stats.....what stats?

I touched on a couple of the stats in the thread Brentford Transfer Speculation Summer 2015 post 1392. A couple of other stats that may or may not be used are:

Pressing: Rather than simply look at how often the pressing player tackles the player in possession, identify how often he forces them to play a ball which goes to one of his own players.

Passing: The current measurement is the percentage of successful passes a player makes. This means that a high number of sideways or backwards passes can skew the figures. A better way might be to measure how often a forward pass goes to a player who is in space (and equally, you would want to measure how often a player moves into a position where he can receive that kind of pass).

Movement: How often does a player make a run which disrupts the defensive line (for example, by splitting the centrebacks), even if the ball doesn't go his way. It's something that, for example, Tony Woodcock and Gary Birtles were very good at.

Tracking back: How well does a player track back? Ashley Cole was particularly good at this.

It's generally recognised that random elements play a huge part of the game. What stats can do is look at where a difference can be made irrespective of the random bounce of the ball.

For example, other than Stoke under Pulis, few goals result from corners - the figure is something like 1 goal from every 19 corners: Stoke managed something like 1 from every 12. A lot of clubs therefore now keep possession from corners since they can control what happens next.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Loads of clubs use statistics and employ analysts either in identifying players or in determining the tactical approach to the game. I have read that Bees use an application called Globall to assist with preparation. I would assume that the stats would relate to tactical awareness, technical ability, mental toughness and fitness and wouldn't be a lot different to the approach of other clubs. Based on recruitment to date it seems we are pitching it at less established players in lower leagues. The other area that we would focus on will be on the academy and development teams in order to grow our own. Ose and team seem to have some good talent coming through with the acid test being if in the next 2-3 years of any will make it into the team. Interesting to see how the relationship with the philosophy element comes into play. My hope is that Marinus is a forceful and dominant coach who is allowed to be his own man as I believe successful teams have strong tactical leadership and man management. Time will tell and patience will be needed. It looks that MB will give the system time that wasn't afforded to leroy and butcher
 

Stats.....what stats?

The other element that will come into play is clarity about "randomness" and what are the plans to reduce its impact. Teams like Chelsea work on referees in an attempt to influence decisions, Bournemouth clearly had a penalty strategy and we were only saved by Mike Dean, refs we had at Fulham and Watford would have given them and probably reduced us to 10 men. Boro new exactly where, who and how to foul us to break up play and stay with a full team. So are penalties and sendings off random events or are they part of a wider game management or team philosophy. Are injuries random, if not then Sam may be looking else where? The statistical approach must cover this
 

Stats.....what stats?

There was a comment made by either Phil Giles or Rasmus that defenders are difficult to measure stats with as a lot of the criteria that are used in other areas of the field simply do not apply and if the defender does well there are no stats (or something like that)
 

Stats.....what stats?

Loads of clubs use statistics and employ analysts either in identifying players or in determining the tactical approach to the game. I have read that Bees use an application called Globall to assist with preparation. I would assume that the stats would relate to tactical awareness, technical ability, mental toughness and fitness and wouldn't be a lot different to the approach of other clubs. Based on recruitment to date it seems we are pitching it at less established players in lower leagues. The other area that we would focus on will be on the academy and development teams in order to grow our own. Ose and team seem to have some good talent coming through with the acid test being if in the next 2-3 years of any will make it into the team. Interesting to see how the relationship with the philosophy element comes into play. My hope is that Marinus is a forceful and dominant coach who is allowed to be his own man as I believe successful teams have strong tactical leadership and man management. Time will tell and patience will be needed. It looks that MB will give the system time that wasn't afforded to leroy and butcher

Butcher's time was up. :thetruth:
 

Stats.....what stats?

Don't all shoot me down,

Can someone please tell me what stats will be used in this new philosophy? I'm sure only one stat counts when playing football,, and that's...more goals than the opponent?

We are all well aware we just had a superb season playing some smashing football and I know it's been said on here before .... Why change that?
Yes, the past is the past now and we all have to move on and hope this new management team have the same desire and man management skills as the last lot!

But my point is, this is football , nobody or no stat can determine which way the ball will roll, no stat can tell you we will gain or concede a last minute penalty, no stat can tell you who will be sent off, ect ect,

I'm not the "old skool" typo and have played at a good level for 20 years (including bees CoE for 5 years) and still playing so I do know my bit about the game.
I hope it's not a complete failure obviously but I'm curious to know what stats will win us matches??
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on G.V. For a while, Stats mean nothing, football is like Snooker,every game is different,l hope no one thinks for one minute that we will be promoted by Stats! You need not only good players, dedication, & trust in a very good management team that we had last season, l still remember unluckily loosing to Stoke at the Millennium, when we had a good side, and Mr Copple went to Reading took 5 of our best with him, they were promoted to Prem, we had to start all over again ! And I Think this Walsall bee has it right. We are still a small club and I hate to say this but there will be no wins at Leeds,Forest,Blackburn, Cardiff, Fulham, ect. This coming season ! Not on STATS !
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on G.V. For a while, Stats mean nothing, football is like Snooker,every game is different,l hope no one thinks for one minute that we will be promoted by Stats! You need not only good players, dedication, & trust in a very good management team that we had last season, l still remember unluckily loosing to Stoke at the Millennium, when we had a good side, and Mr Copple went to Reading took 5 of our best with him, they were promoted to Prem, we had to start all over again ! And I Think this Walsall bee has it right. We are still a small club and I hate to say this but there will be no wins at Leeds,Forest,Blackburn, Cardiff, Fulham, ect. This coming season ! Not on STATS !

Yes we are still a small club, thats why we pick up players such as Gray for 800G (now valued at over 5 mil), Jota for 1.5 mil (now valued at 5 mil) and so on, rather than so called "Big clubs" in our league that will spend 7,8 or 9 million on "Big Name" players.
These players, believe it or not have been found because of the stats way of thinking already, and we will only continue to find more like them in future.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Yes we are still a small club, thats why we pick up players such as Gray for 800G (now valued at over 5 mil), Jota for 1.5 mil (now valued at 5 mil) and so on, rather than so called "Big clubs" in our league that will spend 7,8 or 9 million on "Big Name" players.
These players, believe it or not have been found because of the stats way of thinking already, and we will only continue to find more like them in future.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Well I disagree, cos obviously Andre was found by scoring so many goals for Luton and he deserved to be picked up by a bigger club, I know this is Stats of goal scoring but if you ask Sir Alex, Jose, or any of the people that really know Football, they will tell you they only buy players for certain positions, not about how many corners they give away, or Back passes they play, lt doesn't work cos no one knows how each individual player will balance himself to either pass the ball, or take someone on, or get fouled and lose the ball ! So as I say every game is completely different, this computerised belief will be forgoton within one season, only hope we don't end up like Yeovil Town, just think back to their day at Wembley and where they are now !!!
 

Stats.....what stats?

Well I disagree, cos obviously Andre was found by scoring so many goals for Luton and he deserved to be picked up by a bigger club, I know this is Stats of goal scoring but if you ask Sir Alex, Jose, or any of the people that really know Football, they will tell you they only buy players for certain positions, not about how many corners they give away, or Back passes they play, lt doesn't work cos no one knows how each individual player will balance himself to either pass the ball, or take someone on, or get fouled and lose the ball ! So as I say every game is completely different, this computerised belief will be forgoton within one season, only hope we don't end up like Yeovil Town, just think back to their day at Wembley and where they are now !!!

You don't seem to realise that "Real managers" like Sir Alex and Jose can also go and spend 25 million on the right player for that position.
It doesn't take someone who "Really knows football" (which i also find quite disrespectful to the Bees coaches, D.O.Fs and owner) to look at Lionel Messi and say "Hes good, i will buy him"
Lets be honest, give me 300 million to spend and i'd probably get a top 4 prem team.
We HAVE to stay ahead of the game if we want to stay sustainable AND competitive.
This is the way we do it
 
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Stats.....what stats?

Well I disagree, cos obviously Andre was found by scoring so many goals for Luton and he deserved to be picked up by a bigger club, I know this is Stats of goal scoring but if you ask Sir Alex, Jose, or any of the people that really know Football, they will tell you they only buy players for certain positions, not about how many corners they give away, or Back passes they play, lt doesn't work cos no one knows how each individual player will balance himself to either pass the ball, or take someone on, or get fouled and lose the ball ! So as I say every game is completely different, this computerised belief will be forgoton within one season, only hope we don't end up like Yeovil Town, just think back to their day at Wembley and where they are now !!!

What I don't understand is how you can write off our new approach as something that's doomed to failure without a ball having been kicked or because you don't understand how it will work ?

Nobody knows what statistical analysis is being employed, or to what degree it will feature alongside traditional scouting, coaching and managerial methods but we do know that it won't be as simplistic as you're making out and that a similar approach at FCM has seen them win the league, beating teams with vastly superior budgets. Does that in itself not give you the least bit of confidence it could be similarly successful in our case ?
 

Stats.....what stats?

The difficulty I have with this debate is when people see it in purely black and white terms. On the one hand there are people who regard statistics as useless and on the other there are those who see it as a panacea. Of course, in reality statistics are neither. They are a useful tool in helping to identify prospective new players and in helping to analyse what we do well (or not well) in matches. This much has already eloquently been explained by our two DoFs. And, obviously, many other factors come into play as well since there are many things that statistics cannot measure but which are still important.

If using statistics helps us to become even slightly more effective decision makers then why wouldn't we use them? Lots of other clubs already are!
 

Stats.....what stats?

Don't all shoot me down,

Can someone please tell me what stats will be used in this new philosophy? I'm sure only one stat counts when playing football,, and that's...more goals than the opponent?

We are all well aware we just had a superb season playing some smashing football and I know it's been said on here before .... Why change that?
Yes, the past is the past now and we all have to move on and hope this new management team have the same desire and man management skills as the last lot!

But my point is, this is football , nobody or no stat can determine which way the ball will roll, no stat can tell you we will gain or concede a last minute penalty, no stat can tell you who will be sent off, ect ect,

I'm not the "old skool" typo and have played at a good level for 20 years (including bees CoE for 5 years) and still playing so I do know my bit about the game.
I hope it's not a complete failure obviously but I'm curious to know what stats will win us matches??

Obviously the biggest factor is player recruitment. Better players normally mean better teams. On an "equal" playing field we probably are in for getting out outmaneuvered in the transfer market by the so-called bigger clubs spending more money. However, that isn't what happened last summer - look at all the inferior players who cost more than Jota.

Football statistics are something I know something about (my job is in football trading/betting) and, whilst I don't have much experience in terms of the individual stats we might be looking at in terms of in-depth analysis of one player and their performances, I do know some general things about how, if I was in charge of a club, I'd be looking to use statistics.

The first thing I'd say is when you describe what statistics can't tell you what you are doing is describing randomness. If there was no randomness in football then everything would be quite simple - if we lose to Fulham in week one and Fulham lose to Cardiff in week two then we should have no chance against Cardiff in week three. Obviously people know that's not how it works and this normally leads to half-truths being used to explain what's happened (confidence, belief, form, biased officials, wanting it more) when often what happens is basic variation - there are so few goals in football that hard predictions are a mugs game.

This is all a long-winded way of getting to this point: the footballing truism of the league table never lying is codswallop. Teams can finish higher or lower than their performances and players deserve. Typically speaking, players in teams with higher league positions will be coveted and those with lower league positions will be less desired. However, if the team that finished lower is actually a better but unluckier team, you can sign their better players for less money.

This team-ranking can be done using a variety of statistics. A part of that is to take a look at things like shots on goal (to over-simplify: teams that shoot a lot will score more in the long run).

Another related, but slightly different, approach is to understand how good certain teams are across leagues and countries. If a player is performing well for a team that is a bit better then it stands to reason they're worth considering if they'd come to you. This is normally a big if as a Premier League starter is unlikely to want to come to the Championship. However, there are some under-valued teams and leagues. If you find a good player (and you can judge good by traditional methods if you like) in a good team that isn't valued as highly their English equivalent would be, you are much more likely to attract the player. In our case I've read we've compiled a giant 'super table' of many teams across Europe so we can compare the teams easily even though it's not immediate apparent, at least to us fans, how a mid-table Swiss team compares to a promotion-chasing Championship team. It's the teams that are surprisingly high up on the table or those with incongruously low valued players that are worth looking at.

The Spanish second division is a good example of a league that has been undervalued in recent years - we'd never dream of getting Jota if he had been the best player in a promoted Championship side. As a related bug bear, the bottom of La Liga is normally pretty undervalued at least from a media/ english fans' perspective - they'd be more than competitive in the Premier League, it just looks like they're pushovers because Barcelona are THAT good. In a similar way, the bottom half of the Premier League is often overrated vs the top half of the Championship and so I doubt we'll be joining those clubs who buy the 'experience' of PL players who are dropping down. I heard some Brighton fans going mental that they won't give Zamora the two year deal he's supposedly demanding. They should be happy their club has more sense than they have.

I don't know enough about (who am I kidding, I don't know anything about) German lower leagues to comment at all but it wouldn't be surprising if we've discovered that their leagues are a bit undervalued if you consider the transfers of Sparv and Gogia.

TL;DR - Statistics don't win you matches* but they might get us the players who will win us matches.

*Well, if that 'random' last minute goal from a corner stems from us figuring out what's better, inswinging vs outswinging corners maybe they can. But this has gone on long enough :eek:
 

Stats.....what stats?

I won't quote your post Jots, but it's a very good one.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Yes we are still a small club, thats why we pick up players such as Gray for 800G (now valued at over 5 mil), Jota for 1.5 mil (now valued at 5 mil) and so on, rather than so called "Big clubs" in our league that will spend 7,8 or 9 million on "Big Name" players.
These players, believe it or not have been found because of the stats way of thinking already, and we will only continue to find more like them in future.
So you want to buy undervalued players on the cheap , and when their Value rises.... Flog them ?? Why not keep them ?? Or do you personally make dough out of the sale Mr Harris!! Ha
 

Stats.....what stats?

Well I disagree, cos obviously Andre was found by scoring so many goals for Luton and he deserved to be picked up by a bigger club, I know this is Stats of goal scoring but if you ask Sir Alex, Jose, or any of the people that really know Football, they will tell you they only buy players for certain positions, not about how many corners they give away, or Back passes they play, lt doesn't work cos no one knows how each individual player will balance himself to either pass the ball, or take someone on, or get fouled and lose the ball ! So as I say every game is completely different, this computerised belief will be forgoton within one season, only hope we don't end up like Yeovil Town, just think back to their day at Wembley and where they are now !!!

I think we just need to remember that the stats based approach SUPPLEMENTS traditional methodology, not replaces it.

We aren't losing anything, just adding an extra tool to our toolbox.

People were saying that a stats heavy approach would fail at the Oakland A's and the Pittsburgh Pirates in baseball too, and fundamentally changed their prospects in very quick time
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on G.V. For a while, Stats mean nothing, football is like Snooker,every game is different,l hope no one thinks for one minute that we will be promoted by Stats! You need not only good players, dedication, & trust in a very good management team that we had last season, l still remember unluckily loosing to Stoke at the Millennium, when we had a good side, and Mr Copple went to Reading took 5 of our best with him, they were promoted to Prem, we had to start all over again ! And I Think this Walsall bee has it right. We are still a small club and I hate to say this but there will be no wins at Leeds,Forest,Blackburn, Cardiff, Fulham, ect. This coming season ! Not on STATS !

That's the way I fear!! We all do,, !! People bang on about buying undervalued players like gray( who was bought cause he couldn't stop scoring I might add) and selling them on? Ie jota... But I would be angry to see these leave... Yea so what, we mate a profit, but this isn't my business and I don't make no money... But this is my club and I want them to go up!!!
 

Stats.....what stats?

Good post jots
 

Stats.....what stats?

I think we just need to remember that the stats based approach SUPPLEMENTS traditional methodology, not replaces it.

We aren't losing anything, just adding an extra tool to our toolbox.

People were saying that a stats heavy approach would fail at the Oakland A's and the Pittsburgh Pirates in baseball too, and fundamentally changed their prospects in very quick time

It may well add another tool...

But this isn't baseball..
 

Stats.....what stats?

So you want to buy undervalued players on the cheap , and when their Value rises.... Flog them ?? Why not keep them ?? Or do you personally make dough out of the sale Mr Harris!! Ha


How else do,you expect the club to sustain itself. Mr Benham is not going to bankroll it forever.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Well I disagree, cos obviously Andre was found by scoring so many goals for Luton and he deserved to be picked up by a bigger club, I know this is Stats of goal scoring but if you ask Sir Alex, Jose, or any of the people that really know Football, they will tell you they only buy players for certain positions, not about how many corners they give away, or Back passes they play, lt doesn't work cos no one knows how each individual player will balance himself to either pass the ball, or take someone on, or get fouled and lose the ball ! So as I say every game is completely different, this computerised belief will be forgoton within one season, only hope we don't end up like Yeovil Town, just think back to their day at Wembley and where they are now !!!

Behave. What a load of tripe.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Don't all shoot me down,

Can someone please tell me what stats will be used in this new philosophy? I'm sure only one stat counts when playing football,, and that's...more goals than the opponent?

We are all well aware we just had a superb season playing some smashing football and I know it's been said on here before .... Why change that?
Yes, the past is the past now and we all have to move on and hope this new management team have the same desire and man management skills as the last lot!

But my point is, this is football , nobody or no stat can determine which way the ball will roll, no stat can tell you we will gain or concede a last minute penalty, no stat can tell you who will be sent off, ect ect,

I'm not the "old skool" typo and have played at a good level for 20 years (including bees CoE for 5 years) and still playing so I do know my bit about the game.
I hope it's not a complete failure obviously but I'm curious to know what stats will win us matches??

Clean sheets/conceeding less goals win more points/matches over the course of a season.
 

Stats.....what stats?

:
So you want to buy undervalued players on the cheap , and when their Value rises.... Flog them ?? Why not keep them ?? Or do you personally make dough out of the sale Mr Harris!! Ha

This has to be one of the daftest posts ever. Up there with Blunstone :banghead:
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on G.V. For a while, Stats mean nothing, football is like Snooker,every game is different,l hope no one thinks for one minute that we will be promoted by Stats! You need not only good players, dedication, & trust in a very good management team that we had last season, l still remember unluckily loosing to Stoke at the Millennium, when we had a good side, and Mr Copple went to Reading took 5 of our best with him, they were promoted to Prem, we had to start all over again ! And I Think this Walsall bee has it right. We are still a small club and I hate to say this but there will be no wins at Leeds,Forest,Blackburn, Cardiff, Fulham, ect. This coming season ! Not on STATS !

So how do you judge how good a player is....................................... Stas! See the post above aabout good and bad performances in games being scouted.
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's the way I fear!! We all do,, !! People bang on about buying undervalued players like gray( who was bought cause he couldn't stop scoring I might add) and selling them on? Ie jota... But I would be angry to see these leave... Yea so what, we mate a profit, but this isn't my business and I don't make no money... But this is my club and I want them to go up!!!

But without making money the club would be where we were 10 odd years ago. I did the bike ride to Brighton etc and i dont want to have to to that for my club again...................... MB can only bank roll the club so far. Football is a business. And many clubs run them in ways that cant be sustained. Unless you have a spare £100million sitting around i would say relax and lets see where we go with this. MB has given us the best times as a bees supporter and long may it continue.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Surely people don't actually think we're banking on stats during games & nothing else?
"Right lads it's 1-1 with 6 minutes left, they've had all the shots that the computer has predicted but we've still got 2.3 more shots so we might win..."
 

Stats.....what stats?

So you want to buy undervalued players on the cheap , and when their Value rises.... Flog them ?? Why not keep them ?? Or do you personally make dough out of the sale Mr Harris!! Ha

Not at all Dan, its just the way to keep the club sustainable.
Once those players have hit their potential, all the "Big clubs" will be sniffing around, so we make a tidy profit on a player that maybe wont hit the same heights the season after and replace him with someone who will play to a few percent better
 

Stats.....what stats?

How else do,you expect the club to sustain itself. Mr Benham is not going to bankroll it forever.

Well how else are we "gonna be successful on the field "?? By selling best players?
 

Stats.....what stats?

Stop using real names it's cliquey
 

Stats.....what stats?

But without making money the club would be where we were 10 odd years ago. I did the bike ride to Brighton etc and i dont want to have to to that for my club again...................... MB can only bank roll the club so far. Football is a business. And many clubs run them in ways that cant be sustained. Unless you have a spare £100million sitting around i would say relax and lets see where we go with this. MB has given us the best times as a bees supporter and long may it continue.

I was relaxed when we were hammering the likes of forest, Cardiff , Fulham... Did we really need to change
 

Stats.....what stats?

Well how else are we "gonna be successful on the field "?? By selling best players?

Southampton have done quite well doing this. The skill is having equal replacements when one is sold. The stats modelling is just one of the components that will hopefully see this happen. There is also only a few cups each year that you can win, so how is success measured? several years of premier league football like Stoke? more yo-yo like WBA? or a complete wasted multi millions for a couple of years like Portsmouth?
 

Stats.....what stats?

Some people will never get it no matter how much it's explained
 

Stats.....what stats?

There are a few interesting articles in the Midtjylland thread here that explain the concepts behind things rather well

https://decorrespondent.nl/2607/How...is-Danish-football-club/230219386155-d2948861
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/15/soccer-analytics-brentford-midtjylland-matthew-benham

The idea behind stats v traditional scouting is that scouting can actually give a misleading impression - watch an average player have his two best games of the season and a manager might be tempted to sign a flop, watch a good player having a bad day and you could miss a gem, with the stats you identify the quality and then use more traditional methods to confirm this.

Admittedly the "no stats all star" concept Midtjylland used to sign Tim Sparv might be a difficult concept to explain but it has worked in Denmark and I have every confidence it will work here.

A good scout will do due diligence on a player.
Too many players are signed by recommendation of an agent,but try signing a player without one.
So much more to it than a couple of games and a player can be watched for months even chased for a couple of years.

It's all down to gut instinct.
One problem lies in where you go to watch Calum Wilson for Coventry and end up watching Cyrus Christie.

Now that is not doing the job properly.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Some people will never get it no matter how much it's explained

That's right... Some people won't get it until we see the difference!
 

Stats.....what stats?

That's right... Some people won't get it until we see the difference!

Eh? It has evolved already over the last few years and has been a growing part of where we already are, so you have seen a difference already. All you are seeing is further evolving of how the club is moving forward.
 

Stats.....what stats?

Eh? It has evolved already over the last few years and has been a growing part of where we already are, so you have seen a difference already. All you are seeing is further evolving of how the club is moving forward.

See what your saying geebee but we've changed since last season.. So let's hope and pray this new difference is even better than the last!
 
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