Wayne Rooney

[wibs]

This was Malta. Rooney was incredibly mediocre. He has not played well for England for a long long time.

He is clearly not going to get better.

For goodness sake will someone have the balls to tell him his performances don't warrant inclusion

Is his much vaunted "experience" really going to matter in this extremely easy qualifying group? No it won't.

When Bobby Robson took over in 82, the first thing he did was end the careers of Brooking and Keegan. He was one of the nicest men in football, so if he can do that why can't someone do the same to Rooney. What hold doors the hit have. This isn't 2004 when he was outstanding, it's 12 years later when nothing he does is of real top quality.

It would also get rid of the obsession the media have with him.

I just do not see what the fuss is any more that makes him worthy of a starting place, and he isn't going to get better, so bring in others.

Southgate talks of playing without fear. Well it's too late for Rooney he's had ten years of it and it's deep within.

Quite simply, based on his performances for both club and country over the past two seasons there is absolutely no justification for his inclusion any more

 

[sonofabee]

This was Malta. Rooney was incredibly mediocre. He has not played well for England for a long long time.

He is clearly not going to get better.

For goodness sake will someone have the balls to tell him his performances don't warrant inclusion

Is his much vaunted "experience" really going to matter in this extremely easy qualifying group? No it won't.

When Bobby Robson took over in 82, the first thing he did was end the careers of Brooking and Keegan. He was one of the nicest men in football, so if he can do that why can't someone do the same to Rooney. What hold doors the hit have. This isn't 2004 when he was outstanding, it's 12 years later when nothing he does is of real top quality.

It would also get rid of the obsession the media have with him.

I just do not see what the fuss is any more that makes him worthy of a starting place, and he isn't going to get better, so bring in others.

Southgate talks of playing without fear. Well it's too late for Rooney he's had ten years of it and it's deep within.

Quite simply, based on his performances for both club and country over the past two seasons there is absolutely no justification for his inclusion any more

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

We played 14 qualifiers in the run up to the last tournament during which Rooney scored 14 goals.

Clearly he's not currently the player he was and I think there is a case for dropping him if he's not going to be played in his preferred position but TBH, I find it quite odd that so many are clamouring for his England career to be ended when up until very recently, he's contributed a great deal more than many.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

I'd also say that he's a player who's never shirked a friendly, always made himself available to play regardless of whether he was fully fit or not. He may not be a particularly likeable individual but I admire him for simply wanting to play football at every opportunity.

 

[WarrenBee]

This was Malta. Rooney was incredibly mediocre. He has not played well for England for a long long time.

He is clearly not going to get better.

For goodness sake will someone have the balls to tell him his performances don't warrant inclusion

Is his much vaunted "experience" really going to matter in this extremely easy qualifying group? No it won't.

When Bobby Robson took over in 82, the first thing he did was end the careers of Brooking and Keegan. He was one of the nicest men in football, so if he can do that why can't someone do the same to Rooney. What hold doors the hit have. This isn't 2004 when he was outstanding, it's 12 years later when nothing he does is of real top quality.

It would also get rid of the obsession the media have with him.

I just do not see what the fuss is any more that makes him worthy of a starting place, and he isn't going to get better, so bring in others.

Southgate talks of playing without fear. Well it's too late for Rooney he's had ten years of it and it's deep within.

Quite simply, based on his performances for both club and country over the past two seasons there is absolutely no justification for his inclusion any more

He's the England captain, and the men who wear blazers (but haven't got a clue about anything related to Football rate him), and can make sure they get an FA Cup final ticket for rhem and their mates, this is the way forward!

The FA is rotten from the top!

 

[sonofabee]

I'd also say that he's a player who's never shirked a friendly, always made himself available to play regardless of whether he was fully fit or not. He may not be a particularly likeable individual but I admire him for simply wanting to play football at every opportunity.

My friend, if someone offered me the opportunity to play for my works side at 53 rather than be tied to my desk I'd be there.
He can't get in his club side so why on Earth would he offer to stop playing for his country if offered unless injured?

 

[wibs]

I'd also say that he's a player who's never shirked a friendly, always made himself available to play regardless of whether he was fully fit or not. He may not be a particularly likeable individual but I admire him for simply wanting to play football at every opportunity.

I agree with all that but so what, it doesn't warrant inclusion in the side.

This 14 goals in 14 qualifiers stat is so misleading, such week opposition. How about we look at his tournament performance.

 

[Edmundo]

What hold doors the hit have.

 

[RoyBee]

I think it's Stanley Unwin for "what hold does he have".

Your welcomolio my friendly.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

We must be one of the only footballing nations that berates and boos our all time goal scorer and probably soon to be all time cap holder...................... (yes hes not as good as he used to be) But at least he wants to pull on the white of England compared to some in the past. IMO hes his own worst enemy in terms of his ability meaning managers play him anywhere.

I for one salute his commitment and goals. And wonder what could have been if the FA had a clue on how to get the national side sorted and stopped giving the managers job to yes men.

 

[Leedsbee]

I like him in the second holding midfielder role alongside dier.can't think of anyone else until we find our own Kante .he's certainly a better footballer than Jordan Henderson.has to keep it simple and get the ball efficiently to Dele Alli who worryingly is showing similar signs of trying to much and losing possession to often.Really thought he was the answer in the no 10 role .what's really vital is finding a manager who can get our best players to relax at international level.Rooneys clearly the best player of his generation but has dissaponted at international level in truth since 2004 because of the pressure and expectation we put on him.

 

[LostBee]

He is not a midfield player,never has been and never will be.

If he is not good enough to play as a striker,we should not try and shoehorn him into another position just because he is Wayne Rooney.For me,he should be on the bench currently and used as an option in the second half,but not in midfield.

His club form has been pretty desperate for the last two years.

 

[Delbee]

Over weight
Overpaid
Over rated
Over the hill

 

[grutter]

Very, very ordinary. For me, he was at his best between 17-20.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

I agree with all that but so what, it doesn't warrant inclusion in the side.

This 14 goals in 14 qualifiers stat is so misleading, such week opposition. How about we look at his tournament performance.

I wasn't making the case for him being in the starting XI. I was just pointing out that seeing him booed and huge clamours for him to never play for the national side again seemed very unfortunate to me. As of yet none of our young stars have staked a genuine claim to be automatic picks up front. Kane had an horrendous tournament and is now injured. Sturridge flits between brilliance and complete anonymity and is made of glass. Rashford is raw as anything and Deli Ali is also a mixture of brilliance and total ineffectiveness.

Obviously nobody should be a guaranteed starter but jettisoning a player who up until a few matches ago has scored the vast majority of our goals for the past 5-7 years from the squad seems a bit ridiculous to me if there's no obvious person to step in and replace those goals.

 

[mhead bee]

It is a real shame when our talisman becomes the scapegoat again and that comes down to managers not having the balls to deal with it. Rooney has never hit the heights we expected when he was 18 but lets not forget to appreciate what he has achieved. Charlton scored most of his goals in friendlies when goal keepers where a bit like today's female goalkeepers (plenty of disrespect meant) and Lineker scored in chunks of 4 against teams like Luxembourg before they had learned how to defend and were proper whipping boys. I am not trying to defend his current selection but it does hurt me to see what a player has achieved even only reaching 60-70% of his potential at England level.

Rather than dropping him to midfield to just stand around doing what Dier or Henderson can do why don't we put him up front and see if he can get another 14 goals in qualification, if he can't then we have 3-4 others who can have a go but I can't handle watching him booed or scapegoated. England with or without Rooney are equally as sh*t so the buck can't stop with him, everything is wrong and dullard Southgate isn't the damn answer so why are the press going on and on about whether he should get the job and half the pundits are lording him before he has even taken charge of a single game. From what I saw it was the same players, same formation and same sh*t as the last two games with the last 2 managers.

It feels as if all has been lost for over 20 years now but with our money, investment and population we should be achieving the same as the Olympic teams, the cricket and the rugby. I don't buy into this too much money sh*t, the Germans, Italians, Spanish, Dutch, Argentinians ad Brasilians all have the same amount of earnings so it just a cheap excuse. The problem is far too ingrained and comes from the old farts who run the show.

 

[Aussie Bee]

Taxi for Mr Rooney

 

[whyteleafebee76]

Over weight
Overpaid
Over rated
Over the hill

Yes, but should he be dropped?

 

[brooks]

Looking at the list of his international goals on Wikipedia almost half of them have been against low ranking countries and that's being kind. He was pretty good over ten years ago but he's just making up the numbers now. He's done virtually nothing in finals, where it really matters, for over ten years.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

I think it's Stanley Unwin for "what hold does he have".

Your welcomolio my friendly.

lol Or, as they used to say, 'rearrange these words into a well-known phrase or saying'.

 

[Delbee]

Yes, but should he be dropped?

Yes and his bloody wife to

 

[Delbee]

Taxi for Mr Rooney

There are a few who would pay for it, I for one

 

[mhead bee]

Looking at the list of his international goals on Wikipedia almost half of them have been against low ranking countries and that's being kind. .

Just for balance it was same with Owen, Lineker and Charlton.

 

[TW3Bee]

Over weight
Overpaid
Over rated
Over the hill

I would agree with the last of those statements.

 

[brooks]

Just for balance it was same with Owen, Lineker and Charlton.

I don't know the rankings for Charlton's time but I think most of the countries he played against were, at the least, reasonably decent. Times have changed and competitions now include anyone who wants a game.

 

[bees66]

Gareth Southgate doesn't understand the booing of him as he gives 100% every game...

 

[wibs]

I'm not interested in Owens goals or Charltons goals, but simply the fact Rooney isn't very good.

 

[wibs]

I wasn't making the case for him being in the starting XI. I was just pointing out that seeing him booed and huge clamours for him to never play for the national side again seemed very unfortunate to me. As of yet none of our young stars have staked a genuine claim to be automatic picks up front. Kane had an horrendous tournament and is now injured. Sturridge flits between brilliance and complete anonymity and is made of glass. Rashford is raw as anything and Deli Ali is also a mixture of brilliance and total ineffectiveness.

Obviously nobody should be a guaranteed starter but jettisoning a player who up until a few matches ago has scored the vast majority of our goals for the past 5-7 years from the squad seems a bit ridiculous to me if there's no obvious person to step in and replace those goals.

Basically you've justified why Sturridge and Ali should be in the team. Occasional flashes of brilliance. There simply are zero flashes of brilliance from Rooney and haven't been for a long time.

 

[The Pipe]

I think he has been a good servant to the National team but now offers little beyond basic computable. His pace is gone but his temper remains

Trying to find a role for him is to the detriment of the team as there are younger faster players that can perform just as well, if not better.

On Tuesday it is likely Dier will be available so if he plays where does Roony play??? Instead of Ali??? I hope not but expect he will be fitted in !!!

 

[sonofabee]

I don't know the rankings for Charlton's time but I think most of the countries he played against were, at the least, reasonably decent. Times have changed and competitions now include anyone who wants a game.

Charlton and Lineker were big game players who scored important goals in final stages of tournaments unlike the Granny shagger who last made a telling contribution in 2004

 

[sonofabee]

Gareth Southgate doesn't understand the booing of him as he gives 100% every game...

Has he thought of including Eddie Hutch for Russia?

 

[whyteleafebee76]

It does seem we are picking him just on his name and his history. We have better players than him in the position he played yesterday and I think we probably have better players in any other position he could be played in. No problem with him being picked in squads if he is playing well but he should not be a certain starter in every game.

 

[bees66]

It does seem we are picking him just on his name and his history. We have better players than him in the position he played yesterday and I think we probably have better players in any other position he could be played in. No problem with him being picked in squads if he is playing well but he should not be a certain starter in every game.

Jose dropped him, but is a first pick for England..

 

[aawharris]

Im going to defend him here and say that along with Lallana, Rooney was our best player in the group stages of the World Cup.
He was also the one that TRIED to make things happen against Iceland (although it didnt happen that day) when almost everyone went awol

 

[sonofabee]

Im going to defend him here and say that along with Lallana, Rooney was our best player in the group stages of the World Cup.
He was also the one that TRIED to make things happen against Iceland (although it didnt happen that day) when almost everyone went awol

The qualifiers and group stages we always get through but Rooney never delivers when it matters in the knock out stages, he just doesn't step up.

 

[aawharris]

The qualifiers and group stages we always get through but Rooney never delivers when it matters in the knock out stages, he just doesn't step up.

As i said, he was poor in the knockout game, not through lack of trying though.
What worried me more is was it a tactic that everything went through him,or was it him taking over? (Whatever it was didnt work)
I feel there has been far too much expectation on him to do everything, from fans, managers AND the FA when others seemed to get a bit of a free ride

 

[sonofabee]

As i said, he was poor in the knockout game, not through lack of trying though.
What worried me more is was it a tactic that everything went through him,or was it him taking over? (Whatever it was didnt work)
I feel there has been far too much expectation on him to do everything, from fans, managers AND the FA when others seemed to get a bit of a free ride

No argument, I think he's been over rated for years and think back to when we lost to Italy we played him when not fit and he was awful.
That's not his fault

 

[aawharris]

No argument, I think he's been over rated for years and think back to when we lost to Italy we played him when not fit and he was awful.
That's not his fault

I think a lot of it is that "Ronaldo Syndrome" - he is our most popular, recognisable player worldwide, the face of English football so he gets picked.
He doesnt deserve his place in the side at the moment IF played out of position (and i honestly dont know if ANYBODY knows his best position now)

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Charlton and Lineker were big game players who scored important goals in final stages of tournaments unlike the Granny shagger who last made a telling contribution in 2004

Charlton scored four hat-tricks: versus USA, Luxembourg, Switzerland (who were cannon fodder back then) (friendly), and Mexico (friendly). He also scored six goals against Northern Ireland (in total). Thanks, Wikipedia. He did also score some important goals, you are correct.

 

[Banana]

Charlton scored four hat-tricks: versus USA, Luxembourg, Switzerland (who were cannon fodder back then) (friendly), and Mexico (friendly). He also scored six goals against Northern Ireland (in total). Thanks, Wikipedia. He did also score some important goals, you are correct.

So only hat tricks do they? You missed out Linekar's v Poland.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

So only hat tricks do they? You missed out Linekar's v Poland.

Don't get your point. But Lineker's hat-trick against Poland was definitely one of the best I've ever seen. Hoganesque finishing.

 

[sonofabee]

Charlton scored four hat-tricks: versus USA, Luxembourg, Switzerland (who were cannon fodder back then) (friendly), and Mexico (friendly). He also scored six goals against Northern Ireland (in total). Thanks, Wikipedia. He did also score some important goals, you are correct.

Sir Bobby scored 2 in a World cup semi final and Lineker was a match winner in numerous games in both 86 and 90 World Cups, Rooney has been missing in knockout stages of games for 12 years.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Sir Bobby scored 2 in a World cup semi final and Lineker was a match winner in numerous games in both 86 and 90 World Cups, Rooney has been missing in knockout stages of games for 12 years.

I have no desire whatsoever to argue with that. He, and the rest of the squad, have been completely absent from recent tournaments. Just making the (probably fatuous) point that it may have been easier for Charlton to accrue so many goals back in the day because a greater number of nations were Barry White back then than is now the case. So those who argue that Rooney has scored loads of easy goals in his 50 or so, are not being entirely fair.

 

[sonofabee]

I have no desire whatsoever to argue with that. He, and the rest of the squad, have been completely absent from recent tournaments. Just making the (probably fatuous) point that it may have been easier for Charlton to accrue so many goals back in the day because a greater number of nations were Barry White back then than is now the case. So those who argue that Rooney has scored loads of easy goals in his 50 or so, are not being entirely fair.

He deserves the recognition for having scored more goals for his country than anybody else ever, fantastic achievement.
I wouldn't pick him in my best 11 ever as in my opinion he hasn't stepped up and delivered in the big games so will never be a legend.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

He deserves the recognition for having scored more goals for his country than anybody else ever, fantastic achievement.
I wouldn't pick him in my best 11 ever as in my opinion he hasn't stepped up and delivered in the big games so will never be a legend.

Crying shame that we should have to say that about one of our best ever talents. Fair comment, though.

 

[mhead bee]

I don't know the rankings for Charlton's time but I think most of the countries he played against were, at the least, reasonably decent. Times have changed and competitions now include anyone who wants a game.

Majority of Charltons goals were in Friendlies. 66 and 70 WC we didn't need to qualify and there were no euro's with all the qualification games so it was all friendlies.

 

[mhead bee]

The qualifiers and group stages we always get through but Rooney never delivers when it matters in the knock out stages, he just doesn't step up.

Neither does anybody else.

 

[mhead bee]

Crying shame that we should have to say that about one of our best ever talents. Fair comment, though.

He never lived up to the expectations we had of him when he was 16-18 years old, at euro 04 he was simply the best young talent on the planet. I genuinely thought he would become one of Englands greatest ever players but he never did it again but by only achieving 60% of that expectation he still managed to beat that record. If he had been an Owen and never did the Euro 04 shenanigans I think he would be held in much higher esteem today than he is based purely on his goalscoring. The reality is that he was incredible for Man unt for probably the best part of a decade and will likely over take Charltons record there as well and IMO deserves to be regarded more than just a "granny shagger" for what he has done..

 

[sonofabee]

Neither does anybody else.

 

[sonofabee]

He never lived up to the expectations we had of him when he was 16-18 years old, at euro 04 he was simply the best young talent on the planet. I genuinely thought he would become one of Englands greatest ever players but he never did it again but by only achieving 60% of that expectation he still managed to beat that record. If he had been an Owen and never did the Euro 04 shenanigans I think he would be held in much higher esteem today than he is based purely on his goalscoring. The reality is that he was incredible for Man unt for probably the best part of a decade and will likely over take Charltons record there as well and IMO deserves to be regarded more than just a "granny shagger" for what he has done..

I don't rate him as highly as others as a footballer and don't respect him, after his attitude towards the fans in South Africa I despise him.