Another Manager Poll

[jimmycisabee]

he fits into the young manager currently employed that the club keep hinting at

 

[beebopalula]

he fits into the young manager currently employed that the club keep hinting at

So does Fozzy

 

[Banana]

Erm......I thought that was the key criteria for all businesses not just Brentford Football Club.........how much monies do we have to spend and what's the best use for them. Surely whether we're buying a box of paper clips or appointing a new team manager finance is the major consideration.

Is abee monitoring the price of paper clips being purchased by BFC?

 

[imprimerie]

Erm......I thought that was the key criteria for all businesses not just Brentford Football Club.........how much monies do we have to spend and what's the best use for them. Surely whether we're buying a box of paper clips or appointing a new team manager finance is the major consideration.

I have not heard anything so ridiculous for a long time!Comparing financing a team manager to a box of paper clips.Sensible commercial risk is and should not be a gamble.It is part of running a business. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PRO FOOTBALL CLUB NOT A VILLAGE CRICKET TEAM.The best players sign for those who they have confidence in. It's not surprising that we have had no success in recent years with stoogy ,unintelligent decisions being made continuously.The best part is sometimes to get rid of what we have signed up to has cost the club a lot of money. It would probably would have cost less paying a bit more in the first place and getting a class manager.Again I say good players sign for and play for good managers.

 

[abee]

Is abee monitoring the price of paper clips being purchased by BFC?

I was exaggerating to illustrate as I was trying gently to explain to 'imprimerie' the facts of life.......I noted that 'imprimerie's' joint first choice for new team manager is Peter Taylor and we should 'put our hands in our pockets' to get him.

If the club are really thinking about playing in the Championship then it has to be Steve Coppell or Peter Taylor. We can't afford any longer to let young managers use our club to learn their trade by making mistakes at Brentford's cost. Come on Brentford put your hand in your pocket. It will be the best investment you have ever made!

He also suggests that 'risk' should not be a gamble.......(erm that's why it's called 'risk' actually.........because it is a gamble) and that decisions should not always be taken with financial considerations in mind but as he's heard (I assume he means read) nothing so ridiculous for a long time I'll retire into my shell.

 

[SmiffyBee]

Is abee monitoring the price of paper clips being purchased by BFC?

abee doesn't sweat the small stuff - or was that someone else ? :thetruth:

 

[bees66]

bringing in Buckle will put a lot of bums on seats at GP.................NOT.....

 

[Gosport Bee]

Choice of 2 for me either NF or Di Matteo

 

[imprimerie]

I was exaggerating to illustrate as I was trying gently to explain to 'imprimerie' the facts of life.......I noted that 'imprimerie's' joint first choice for new team manager is Peter Taylor and we should 'put our hands in our pockets' to get him.



He also suggests that 'risk' should not be a gamble.......(erm that's why it's called 'risk' actually.........because it is a gamble) and that decisions should not always be taken with financial considerations in mind but as he's heard (I assume he means read) nothing so ridiculous for a long time I'll retire into my shell.

I am not going to fall out over this one however........commercial activity and that includes running a Football Club is a risky affair. Intelligent guesswork can make you money.Sitting on the fence employing the likes of Rosenior and his successors has led to where we are now. That is in the same place (roughly).We have spent a fortune on second raters.
Now to Peter Taylor.You obviously don't like him,but he was an excellent coach with England's youth and afterwards with Hull. He wasted his time and reputation at Wycombe,it was something he should never have taken on. If he was to bring success to Brentford ,would you say no. Anyhow it would never happen and I prefer Steve Coppell and would love us to take him on.What he did for Reading he could do for us.
So you see wise speculation can get you places. Being tight and not investing correctly gets you where we are now. Up the BEES.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I was exaggerating to illustrate as I was trying gently to explain to 'imprimerie' the facts of life.......I noted that 'imprimerie's' joint first choice for new team manager is Peter Taylor and we should 'put our hands in our pockets' to get him.



He also suggests that 'risk' should not be a gamble.......(erm that's why it's called 'risk' actually.........because it is a gamble) and that decisions should not always be taken with financial considerations in mind but as he's heard (I assume he means read) nothing so ridiculous for a long time I'll retire into my shell.

If Peter Taylor calls, I suggest we put our hands in our pockets until the ringing stops. :yes:

 

[Guildford Bee]

Now to Peter Taylor.You obviously don't like him,but he was an excellent coach with England's youth and afterwards with Hull. He wasted his time and reputation at Wycombe,it was something he should never have taken on. If he was to bring success to Brentford ,would you say no. Anyhow it would never happen and I prefer Steve Coppell and would love us to take him on.What he did for Reading he could do for us.
So you see wise speculation can get you places. Being tight and not investing correctly gets you where we are now. Up the BEES.

Peter Taylor would probably manage us for £100 a week. No one wants him or his awful brand of football.

 

[absenteebee]

Peter Taylor was never the same without Cloughie and vice versa.

 

[brooks]

A capital NO to Taylor and Hoddle.

 

[scruff puppy pup]

******** Can we have a new poll, please? **********
:dog::computer::shrug::worm:

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

Peter Taylor was never the same without Cloughie and vice versa.

Christ, imagine a joint managment team of ex Bradford Peter Taylor and Nigel Clough.

We would be begging for Andy Scott back.

 

[The Pipe]

I have not heard anything so ridiculous for a long time!Comparing financing a team manager to a box of paper clips.Sensible commercial risk is and should not be a gamble.It is part of running a business. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PRO FOOTBALL CLUB NOT A VILLAGE CRICKET TEAM.The best players sign for those who they have confidence in. It's not surprising that we have had no success in recent years with stoogy ,unintelligent decisions being made continuously.The best part is sometimes to get rid of what we have signed up to has cost the club a lot of money. It would probably would have cost less paying a bit more in the first place and getting a class manager.Again I say good players sign for and play for good managers.

With all due respect I dont think I have read anything so ridiculous for a long time ( with due respect to Hypa23) We live in a time when players and managers demand and expect big bucks irrespective of whether they justify the price tag which means that more than ever it is vital to spend wisely and unfortunately paying top dollar does not guarantee you any success.

Having followed this club through its downs and more downs for the past 50 plus years I am more than happy if some prudent sence is applied to all signings be they manager or players, I am no lover of Scott however he managed to get us promoted which implies that employing him was money well spent, he followed this with a 9th place so again money well spent and nobody would know in advance just how much this season was going to be cocked up.

We do not have untold millions behind us, MB has made it clear how his involvement works and therefore as far as possible the club has to operate within an acceptable operating budget which includes players and managers. We would all love a fantastic manager and a brand new team of fantastic players however unless someone comes up with a lottery win that will remain a pipe dream. We must operate in a realistic manner if we are to have any longevity and to suggest otherwise is to follow the likes of Leeds etc.

 

[imprimerie]

With all due respect I dont think I have read anything so ridiculous for a long time ( with due respect to Hypa23) We live in a time when players and managers demand and expect big bucks irrespective of whether they justify the price tag which means that more than ever it is vital to spend wisely and unfortunately paying top dollar does not guarantee you any success.

Having followed this club through its downs and more downs for the past 50 plus years I am more than happy if some prudent sence is applied to all signings be they manager or players, I am no lover of Scott however he managed to get us promoted which implies that employing him was money well spent, he followed this with a 9th place so again money well spent and nobody would know in advance just how much this season was going to be cocked up.

We do not have untold millions behind us, MB has made it clear how his involvement works and therefore as far as possible the club has to operate within an acceptable operating budget which includes players and managers. We would all love a fantastic manager and a brand new team of fantastic players however unless someone comes up with a lottery win that will remain a pipe dream. We must operate in a realistic manner if we are to have any longevity and to suggest otherwise is to follow the likes of Leeds etc.

I don't think I am getting my point across very well.Let's have another go! Having the sort of Andy Scott type manager,will only get you to a certain level. If we want to go further we will have to pay more for someone who can take us to the next level.
As regards money wasted,this club has wasted thousands on paying off unwanted managers contracts,as well as signings which haven't prooved to be good business .Yes I agree we have to be wise with our money but unwise careful decisions haven't got us anywhere. A little bit more put in the right place ,at the right time and I'm sure we would be better off now. Easier said than done? Yes but these people are employed to make the right decisions
Brentford have the chance now to make a decision for the future . But will they?

 

[jlove]

I don't think I am getting my point across very well.

Your point seems to be that the club should only employ a manager that will take us "to another level" and sign players that "prove to be good business". I doubt that any club's board has a different view.

Unfortunately, in the real world of lower league football, these things are impossible to get right all the time. I'm happy if the board achieve more than 51%. Only hindsight is ever 100% correct and we would all have accepted AS's "style" of play had we got promoted and won the JPT, no matter what the naysayers post in retrospect. Taking a club like BFC forward is a painstaking process, starting with a sound financial management, which is what abee with our angel Matthew have now in place. We need a new stadium as the second priority and, despite all the set-backs, I fully expect this to happen in my lifetime (or we are all dead). For me, the new manager's task is to build for the future, even if that is not instant success or 100% perfect signings.

 

[steve.bees89]

I don't think I am getting my point across very well.Let's have another go! Having the sort of Andy Scott type manager,will only get you to a certain level........... ......

If we want to go further we will have to pay more for someone who can take us to the next level.

Brentford have the chance now to make a decision for the future . But will they?

The first point you make regarding having an Andy Scott type (by which I assume you mean an untried manager) only getting us to a certain level, how do you work that out? You just don't know who'll get us where, otherwise we'd have employed them years back. Who's to say appointing Alex Ferguson would have saved us from relegation back when AS was appointed? If appointing an AS type (as you say) gets us to a higher level before we must part ways then I, and most bees fans, will take that.

 

[imprimerie]

Your point seems to be that the club should only employ a manager that will take us "to another level" and sign players that "prove to be good business". I doubt that any club's board has a different view.

Unfortunately, in the real world of lower league football, these things are impossible to get right all the time. I'm happy if the board achieve more than 51%. Only hindsight is ever 100% correct and we would all have accepted AS's "style" of play had we got promoted and won the JPT, no matter what the naysayers post in retrospect. Taking a club like BFC forward is a painstaking process, starting with a sound financial management, which is what abee with our angel Matthew have now in place. We need a new stadium as the second priority and, despite all the set-backs, I fully expect this to happen in my lifetime (or we are all dead). For me, the new manager's task is to build for the future, even if that is not instant success or 100% perfect signings.

Ihope you will understand that I like you want sound success for this club.Seeing the Bees for the first time in1964 I think you will all understand when I tell you that I love this club. Now that's over with,I agree in most of what you say but look at the recent bunch of managers that we have had? Too many in such a short space of time.This is not good for our club.
As regards Sir Alex,I wouldn't mind him as manager! 20+ years in the job. Continuity brings success.

 

[jlove]

OK, Mr Printer, lets agree we both have BFC in our hearts. Even S'ralicks signed Juan Sebastian Veron, though.

 

[imprimerie]

OK, Mr Printer, lets agree we both have BFC in our hearts. Even S'ralicks signed Juan Sebastian Veron, though.

Everyone makes mistakes!He did sign Hernandes for a song though.Up the BEES!

 

[chippendale]

Yes but these people are employed to make the right decisions. Brentford have the chance now to make a decision for the future . But will they?

abee isn't employed by the club. He is a Director who works for nowt.

 

[horshambees]

Ihope you will understand that I like you want sound success for this club.Seeing the Bees for the first time in1964 I think you will all understand when I tell you that I love this club. Now that's over with,I agree in most of what you say but look at the recent bunch of managers that we have had? Too many in such a short space of time.This is not good for our club.
As regards Sir Alex,I wouldn't mind him as manager! 20+ years in the job. Continuity brings success.

Sir Alex took 4 years to win something.He wouldnt get that long now.Wenger hasnt won anything since 2005 and they are calling for his head.Since 1964 we have an abundance of managers.This chop and change of gaffers at GP is nothing new.I agree 6 in 6 years is not good,i do know they either walked or got the sack for reasons that we all know, and any incoming manager may well take that on board.I think KOC has played under 9!!!!!! What do we as supporters want though,instant sucess or stability? its a tricky one imo.For the record you have seen 25 managers in the hot seat in your time,im on 21.

 

[hypa123]

i) in the real world of lower league football, these things are impossible to get right all the time.
ii) Only hindsight is ever 100% correct
iii) we would all have accepted AS's "style" of play had we got promoted and won the JPT

i) At last the voice of reason.
ii) Even hindsight gets it wrong half the time.
iii) Precisely.

Managerial continuity is a fine thing. Unfortunately it means allowing a manager to have bad spells from time to time in which the team dips below a mid-table position. Something which the fans, with their 20/20 foresight, will not allow.

 

[beebopalula]

i) At last the voice of reason.
ii) Even hindsight gets it wrong half the time.
iii) Precisely.

Managerial continuity is a fine thing. Unfortunately it means allowing a manager to have bad spells from time to time in which the team dips below a mid-table position. Something which the fans, with their 20/20 foresight, will not allow.

Hypa it was deeper and more profound than ' a bad spell'. If you can get a copy of the last two TITS issues, I suggest you read the Lee and Hunt interviews. The General had lost his army.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

i) At last the voice of reason.
ii) Even hindsight gets it wrong half the time.
iii) Precisely.

Managerial continuity is a fine thing. Unfortunately it means allowing a manager to have bad spells from time to time in which the team dips below a mid-table position. Something which the fans, with their 20/20 foresight, will not allow.

Surely the board has shown 20/20 foresight by deciding that Andy Scott was not the man to deliver the vision that our main benefactor has for the club. The evidence is on the pitch - we will never be any more than mid-table with the side he put together so why should the board indulge the same manager in paying off long contracts so he can start again? There appears to be no evidence that Scott would have done things differently next time.

 

[sussexb]

i) At last the voice of reason.
ii) Even hindsight gets it wrong half the time.
iii) Precisely.

Managerial continuity is a fine thing. Unfortunately it means allowing a manager to have bad spells from time to time in which the team dips below a mid-table position. Something which the fans, with their 20/20 foresight, will not allow.

But keeping the same manager for long periods doesn't necessarily mean that success will follow. It's about making the right decisions at the right time. After all, Ron Atkinson went before Sir Alex was employed, should they have remained loyal to him? Would he have had the same record?

"Chopping and changing" can cause problems but so can sticking with the wrong man.

 

[beebopalula]

Surely the board has shown 20/20 foresight by deciding that Andy Scott was not the man to deliver the vision that our main benefactor has for the club. The evidence is on the pitch - we will never be any more than mid-table with the side he put together so why should the board indulge the same manager in paying off long contracts so he can start again? There appears to be no evidence that Scott would have done things differently next time.

Indeed, he appears to be doing more of the same style wise at Rotherham. Leopards and spots.

 

[hypa123]

Hypa it was deeper and more profound than ' a bad spell'. If you can get a copy of the last two TITS issues, I suggest you read the Lee and Hunt interviews. The General had lost his army.

TITS doesn't make it to the Paris newsstands and I don't have any insider information of the kind that some GPG posters claim to have. It may be that you're right about Scott losing the troops. But the more general point remains: if you want managerial continuity - which most people would regard as a good thing - you have to allow that he will have occasional downs as well as ups. It's notable, for example, that David Moyes wasn't chucked out on his ear when Everton were languishing around the foot of the table earlier in the season. Mick McCarthy too seems to be hanging in there despite Wolves staring relegation in the face. Not to mention Avram Grant at West Ham. Another general point - if you don't want to have to make a large pay-off on a manager's contract when he's booted out, you have either to pick him very, very carefully or be patient with him when things don't go as smoothly as you'd have liked.

 

[bostonhanwell]

i) At last the voice of reason.
ii) Even hindsight gets it wrong half the time.
iii) Precisely.

Managerial continuity is a fine thing. Unfortunately it means allowing a manager to have bad spells from time to time in which the team dips below a mid-table position. Something which the fans, with their 20/20 foresight, will not allow.

I agree that clubs generally are too quick to sack managers. I was also right behind AS for a long time. However it did become obvious towards the end that change was needed. He had a good budget in the summer and spent it. When things started going wrong (right from the start of the season) he was unable to deal with it and panicked, making more and more strange decisions. The squad had clearly lost faith in him and at the time of his sacking relegation was a real possibility. The entertainment value was zero and there was a real feeling among supporters that they no longer wanted to go and watch anymore.

In short his position became untenable and the board did the right thing and sacked him. I believe they gave him a fair chance to put it right and he couldn't.

 

[bostonhanwell]

TITS doesn't make it to the Paris newsstands and I don't have any insider information of the kind that some GPG posters claim to have. It may be that you're right about Scott losing the troops. But the more general point remains: if you want managerial continuity - which most people would regard as a good thing - you have to allow that he will have occasional downs as well as ups. It's notable, for example, that David Moyes wasn't chucked out on his ear when Everton were languishing around the foot of the table earlier in the season. Mick McCarthy too seems to be hanging in there despite Wolves staring relegation in the face. Not to mention Avram Grant at West Ham. Another general point - if you don't want to have to make a large pay-off on a manager's contract when he's booted out, you have either to pick him very, very carefully or be patient with him when things don't go as smoothly as you'd have liked.

Comparing Scott to Moyes etc is like comparing apples and oranges. All of the managers you mention, especially Moyes are doing their jobs as well or better than could be reasonably be expected. Sadly Scott wasn't and it is well past the time to move on now.

 

[Low End Bee]

Please can we forget Scott. I would personally have got rid in September. There's no way I'd be renewing my ST to see his brand of dross if he'd have stayed. The board gave him plenty of time to sort out the team. Let's get someone sensible to sort out the mess he left and move us forward.
We can't keep buying dross and then expect Wycombe to take them off our hands every season.

 

[imprimerie]

abee isn't employed by the club. He is a Director who works for nowt.

I was not talking about abee.I was talking really about those who have been and are employed by the club .Those who work like abee are a credit to Brentford Football Club.

 

[SmiffyBee]

I was not talking about abee.I was talking really about those who have been and are employed by the club .Those who work like abee are a credit to Brentford Football Club.

yeah - its all the others that should be sacked !

Who are they by the way ?
These other people...send me a list and I'll let Buzz Bee know via facebook

 

[imprimerie]

yeah - its all the others that should be sacked !

Who are they by the way ?
These other people...send me a list and I'll let Buzz Bee know via facebook

I was talking in general about the running of the club over many years.We've had enormous financial problems since the mid 60s that's for sure.Things were not made easier by those who thought that they were more important than the club and have come and gone,putting even more pressure on our club.. There is no need for names. Am I being critical? Yes positive not negative criticism.Too many managers, too many players signed and let go. Money wasted .If we've got money to spend now let's get it right and choose someone who can take us forward.
I'm accused of advocating overspending to sign up a half decent manager,all I'm saying is that we should have strong ,stable, quality management if we want success.

 

[absenteebee]

how much would it cost to employ this Hindsight fella and is he currently employed? forget di matteo, hoddle or even Sir steve coppell, itseems like MB should pull out all the stops to get him.

 

[hypa123]

All of the managers you mention (...) are doing their jobs as well or better than could be reasonably be expected.

Mr McCarthy (20th out of 20) and Mr Grant (19th) will be very pleased to hear you say so.

 

[imprimerie]

how much would it cost to employ this Hindsight fella and is he currently employed? forget di matteo, hoddle or even Sir steve coppell, itseems like MB should pull out all the stops to get him.

How many managers in how many years? You don't need hindsight to work out that something isn't right in the choice of manager.

 

[imprimerie]

Sir Alex took 4 years to win something.He wouldnt get that long now.Wenger hasnt won anything since 2005 and they are calling for his head.Since 1964 we have an abundance of managers.This chop and change of gaffers at GP is nothing new.I agree 6 in 6 years is not good,i do know they either walked or got the sack for reasons that we all know, and any incoming manager may well take that on board.I think KOC has played under 9!!!!!! What do we as supporters want though,instant sucess or stability? its a tricky one imo.For the record you have seen 25 managers in the hot seat in your time,im on 21.

To change the subject slightly. Who do you think ,out of the 21, was the best. Steve Perryman was good as was Steve Coppell and and.......................................

 

[jlove]

how much would it cost to employ this Hindsight fella and is he currently employed?

Got the sack from Melchester Rovers... didn't see it coming, although he admitted it was staring him the face afterwards...

 

[horshambees]

To change the subject slightly. Who do you think ,out of the 21, was the best. Steve Perryman was good as was Steve Coppell and and.......................................

Bill Dodgin was my hero,still is,he came when we were shocking and 18 or so months later took us up.Happy days.Perryman set us up well and was a decent boss.Coppell assembled the best side I seen at GP and that side should have gone up.Allen gave us exciting times in his 2 years.Calaghan gave us attacking football with no defence.Good days also.The worst,Kenny Everitt,just awful,may,fitz,downes,AS at the end,leroy at the end and I refused to watch us under Butcher so he has to be the worst of them all.

 

[sonofabee]

Bill Dodgin was my hero,still is,he came when we were shocking and 18 or so months later took us up.Happy days.Perryman set us up well and was a decent boss.Coppell assembled the best side I seen at GP and that side should have gone up.Allen gave us exciting times in his 2 years.Calaghan gave us attacking football with no defence.Good days also.The worst,Kenny Everitt,just awful,may,fitz,downes,AS at the end,leroy at the end and I refused to watch us under Butcher so he has to be the worst of them all.

Difficult call, best team was probably Coppells and deffo the best side in that division, injuries and lack of depth did for us......best individuals probably played in Freds team, Bill Dodgin had us playing sublime football but in the basement, we were so gash under Everitt it's unreal and don't think anything compares to that team

 

[horshambees]

Difficult call, best team was probably Coppells and deffo the best side in that division, injuries and lack of depth did for us......best individuals probably played in Freds team, Bill Dodgin had us playing sublime football but in the basement, we were so gash under Everitt it's unreal and don't think anything compares to that team

Yeah its a difficult call but nostalgia and youth just says Dodgins over Coppells but then i have to say Coppells was better than Dodgins and it goes on and on.My 2 favourites then.Musically wise 1977 wins it by a mile.

 

[Gosport Bee]

Think i would have to add Frank Blunstone to the list. My first taste of promotion with O'Mara, Docherty etc Scoring 4,5 & 6 goals in home games .........great times

 

[sonofabee]

Yeah its a difficult call but nostalgia and youth just says Dodgins over Coppells but then i have to say Coppells was better than Dodgins and it goes on and on.My 2 favourites then.Musically wise 1977 wins it by a mile.

Same era, I'd probably go 78 and 79, Ian Dury, Jam, Clash and Stranglers for me

 

[scruff puppy pup]

Yeah its a difficult call but nostalgia and youth just says Dodgins over Coppells but then i have to say Coppells was better than Dodgins and it goes on and on.My 2 favourites then.Musically wise 1977 wins it by a mile.

....not forgetting the deaths that summer of Elvis, Victor the Giraffe, Groucho Max and Marc Bolan.
Anyone who was coming to Griffin Park that summer will know why I am mentioning this.

 

[scruff puppy pup]

Same era, I'd probably go 78 and 79, Ian Dury, Jam, Clash and Stranglers for me

R.I.P. Poly Styrene.
Bless her.

 

[bees66]

The worst,Kenny Everitt,just awful.

lol was his brother Mike Everitt

 

[horshambees]

lol was his brother Mike Everitt

I always get the two mixed up.Mike was the one with the greek bird with the big jugs.Kenny denied he was gay.Couldnt fool us though.Trivia question is which one was our gaffer?