Brentford Programme

[RodBee]

I bought an occasional programme up to this season but now I buy one every week.

The Warbs pages I have to read at home as black print on a brown background make it impossible to read.

Less photographs & more articles - especially items we do not read on the website.

The Big Interview is maybe a tad too big!

A fans eye view of Brentford/their history of following the club would be good - looking forward to Nick Logan's already!

I like the history of Brentford page and photograph - that could be extended to cover a couple of pages.

 

[Billy Hunt]

The 5 facts on the opposition that takes up a whole page, looks rubbish. :thetruth:

 

[SmiffyBee]

The 5 facts on the opposition that takes up a whole page, looks rubbish. :thetruth:

I could supply 5 added made up facts to pad it out ?

 

[Billy Hunt]

I could supply 5 added made up facts to pad it out ?

Yes, you could, Smiffy. You could. :moo:

 

[gbems92]

What about publishing Risk Assessments of training ground procedures ?

Twig and tree debris clearance before training.....for example

DBS checks on recruited personnel to check your top notch Portuguese prospect is actually quite good, and not Bert from Albufeira

I would be very interested in this documentation.

Anonymous confession corner, where fans write in with their football related confessions of yesteryear.

I like the idea of confession corner!

 

[HertfordBee]

I don't care what the content is as long as the totally unreadable white text on a black background is scrapped. I've given up trying to read the Mark Warburton article now.

I agree with the previous comment about the unnecessary lengthy reports on the under 21/under 18 matches. Why not have regular articles by Lee Carsley, Jon De Souza and Ose Aibangee about what's going on with the academy teams? And more information, articles about the development squad players.

 

[GP200]

...............gentlemans etiquette ................

 

[Sultan]

I wouldn't be surprised if the programme was reduced in the number of pages and included in the admission price to add extra value on the increased admission cost that is inevitable.

 

[SmiffyBee]

I like the idea of confession corner!

I am aware of what goes on tour , stays on tour but names could be changed to protect the innocent / guilty.

 

[wanderer paul]

What sort of historical or memorabilia articles would people be interested in?

Plans and draft articles are afoot re one historical series for next seasons programme - sourcing additional material for these articles isn't easy though! Typing it all up takes time and it's all voluntary!

I have an idea for another series, but once again, sourcing new material is difficult.

I've ended my page, Bees memorabilia, as I'm not sure if it, or I, can add to what's been shown over another season - ie 25 articles approximately. There's stuff around and items from my collection and other peoples collections, that I haven't shown or done an article on, it's just the time to do it all.

Mark's historical articles, re locations around Brentford, are interesting, but again, what can be added that already hasn't been shown?

The programme has shown football shirts, programmes, etc etc. Thinking of something new is difficult, any ideas?! What would you like to see?

 

[Wise old Bee]

Mark's historical articles, re locations around Brentford, are interesting, but again, what can be added that already hasn't been shown?

The programme has shown football shirts, programmes, etc etc. Thinking of something new is difficult, any ideas?! What would you like to see?

I would like to see a larger typeface and clearer pages, less shading. It is impossible to read much of the programme and my eyesight is not what it was.

 

[rebus]

I would like to see a larger typeface and clearer pages, less shading. It is impossible to read much of the programme and my eyesight is not what it was.

The vast majority of pages are black text on a white background so I'm not sure it can get any clearer.


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[FlyBee]

The vast majority of pages are black text on a white background

Fulhamification in all its glory.

 

[hatfieldbee]

We are planning for next season so all views welcome, thank you. What features don't we do that you'd like to see in the programme?

A much improved section on the visiting team. Apart from the 4 'featured' players, a 1 page annotated list is virtually useless in finding out about each player. Probably copying the style of most progs in the league, by giving each 1st team squad a couple of sentences or a paragragh each, thats all it needs. I'm sure visiting clubs will have ready made biogs of each player, so needn't bee too onerous to prepare. Seen some excellent items about us and our players on our travels this season.

 

[horshambees]

I like the history of the fixture.

Can we re produce previous results beyond the last ten years or last ten meetings?

Opposition team photo.

More on the squad rather than a one liner?

 

[hatfieldbee]

Also, can the back page with squads and numbers not be on such shiny paper please? My biro can't cope with it!

 

[FlyBee]

Also, can the back page with squads and numbers not be on such shiny paper please? My biro can't cope with it!

Get a sharpie.

 

[FlyBee]

I would introduce a page for autographs, a page for notes and a page to attach your ticket stub.

 

[Billy Hunt]

I would introduce a page for autographs, a page for notes and a page to attach your ticket stub.

...and a page for horoscopes, a sudoku page, a crossword, a page that can be removed and used as a napkin/tissue, a television guide, 3D glasses, a page for a comic strip, a free badge, fold-out holographic posters, a betting page, an origami page...

 

[GuyBee]

The vast majority of pages are black text on a white background so I'm not sure it can get any clearer.


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Can be a larger font though. In the gloom, under the stands, it hard for us oldies to read the small text

 

[coconino]

Can be a larger font though. In the gloom, under the stands, it hard for us oldies to read the small text

It's mostly set 8 on 10, which is perfectly acceptable for text setting, most newspapers will be set tighter than this. The factors affecting readability are more subtle and to do with the typeface and letterspacing, plus the style of justification and paragraph breaks and how this relates to hyphenation, particularly with rag-right setting such as is used throughout the programme, plus the hardness and whiteness of the paper. It looks to me like certain choices have been forced due to the speed with which each issue has to be put together, and had the choices gone the other way (justification over rag, for instance) then this would have presented different problems and possibly increased time needed for subbing.

My tuppence worth: set most of the text half a point smaller (or a quarter point) on the same leading, but use a heavier-weight face, and vary the justification style such that longer articles (i.e. the ones over 2-columns of 15 picas and where there is more opportunity to prepare in advance) are set justified, insert fewer paragraph breaks, use moderate hyphenation, and—for the non-justified setting—try a more consistent rag (needs hyphenation).

Looking at our Blackpool programme, turning to page 41, I suspect that older eyes will find the questions in bold are far more legible than the answers, but the size is consistent, showing that a larger typeface isn't necessarily the answer. On page 51 (‘Memorabilia’, surely a page which should be set with older eyes in consideration) the wide measure, frequent paragraph breaks, light-weight face and unwarranted rag all mitigate against easy reading.

Overall though, this is nit-picking the detail of a very well-produced programme.

My only comment about the content is that we should return to having actual match reports, not just pictures of the action.

 

[kainiemi]

the humour we had a couple of seasons back was good. History of the fixture is interesting...likewise 'On this day'...
maybe get one of the visiting mob to write a piece in advance on anything they want.. even include a non-football bit about the visitors town as well as footy..
interview with past players (especially those we may have forgotten about)..
pick a season ticket holder at random and do a profile of them..
ask a player his favourite things..make it off-beat like that qn in the Brighton prog!

 

[aawharris]

Frank McParlands "Gardeners Corner"?

 

[rebus]

Thanks for all your suggestions so far, please keep them coming.

 

[Milton Keynes Bee]

Rebus, as you've approached the GPG for assistance how about a one page feature on a personality from the GPG. There are lots of people who feature regularly on the GPG who none of us know. For example and off the top of my head:

- Banana
- Sonofabee
- Northampton Bee
- Bill Benn
- Brickie Chap
- Ealing Bee
- Wanderer Paul
- Owlsmoor
etc etc

A simple interview, or answers to a list of questions, with photograph. For example - how long have you been a supporter, why, how could the club improve, what would you do if you were in charge etc etc

It would be great for all of us who aren't ITK.

Also what about the Big Interview featuring Rebus?

 

[AB]

What sort of historical or memorabilia articles would people be interested in?

Plans and draft articles are afoot re one historical series for next seasons programme - sourcing additional material for these articles isn't easy though! Typing it all up takes time and it's all voluntary!

I have an idea for another series, but once again, sourcing new material is difficult.

I've ended my page, Bees memorabilia, as I'm not sure if it, or I, can add to what's been shown over another season - ie 25 articles approximately. There's stuff around and items from my collection and other peoples collections, that I haven't shown or done an article on, it's just the time to do it all.

Mark's historical articles, re locations around Brentford, are interesting, but again, what can be added that already hasn't been shown?

The programme has shown football shirts, programmes, etc etc. Thinking of something new is difficult, any ideas?! What would you like to see?

I thought Bournemouth's programme for our game at their place was excellent on the historical stuff - it reprinted in full an old programme of theirs for a match with us back in the 50s. Even in the Championship there are quite a few teams who we've not played a lot in the last 50 years or so, but if we do somehow manage to go up it would be fantastic to have reprints of how we saw our last league game against the likes of Villa, Arsenal, Everton, Man U et al who we haven't played in a fixture as a peer for such a long time. Do a nice spine print which makes up a picture over the whole season and the full set of 19 will make a great collector piece put in a hard slip cover (including 15-16 highlights DVD).

 

[SmiffyBee]

Pictures of Footballers in Sports Casual atire please

 

[wanderer paul]

I thought Bournemouth's programme for our game at their place was excellent on the historical stuff - it reprinted in full an old programme of theirs for a match with us back in the 50s. Even in the Championship there are quite a few teams who we've not played a lot in the last 50 years or so, but if we do somehow manage to go up it would be fantastic to have reprints of how we saw our last league game against the likes of Villa, Arsenal, Everton, Man U et al who we haven't played in a fixture as a peer for such a long time. Do a nice spine print which makes up a picture over the whole season and the full set of 19 will make a great collector piece put in a hard slip cover (including 15-16 highlights DVD).

Bournemouth's was a good edition. A number if clubs in the Championship and above have two or three full time editors/contributors, Brentford have rebus! Then the contributions of several supporters. There are ideas in a few other clubs programmes which are good, but you don't want to look as though the editor or contributor has just copied their ideas. I liked Birmingham's 'scrapbook' idea over several pages. Looking at old programmes, memorabilia, pictures, etc etc.

Cardiff reproduced an old programme too. I have no idea as to costs etc.

I liked the idea of stickers or cards to collect. Several league clubs do this. It would get the younger supporters involved and maybe more sales, just for the stickers!

 

[wanderer paul]

Pictures of Footballers in Sports Casual atire please

Are you on the turn? :suspect:

Why would you want to view footballers bare chested, in jumpers and wearing 1970's hipsters? :nutty:

Get a grip of yourself before someone else does. :grey:

 

[Nick Hester]

I think it's a really good effort - I know Chappers has all the players, management and news at his fingertips but both me and Ricko know the amount that you have to put in to a publication and we only come out 4 times a season... I think MC does remarkably well considering he couldn't read or write only four years ago...

 

[rebus]

Also what about the Big Interview featuring Rebus?

I think sales would hit an all time low for that one.

Bournemouth's programme is excellent; at certain stages of production they have three people working full time on it for each issue.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Are you on the turn? :suspect:

Why would you want to view footballers bare chested, in jumpers and wearing 1970's hipsters? :nutty:

Get a grip of yourself before someone else does. :grey:

He couldn't turn anymore, could he?

 

[jlove]

Guffers' Corner: My finest...

 

[Nick Hester]

Also what about the Big Interview featuring Rebus?

Nah - we tried that a few years back and our sales were never the same again...

 

[AB]

I think sales would hit an all time low for that one.

Bournemouth's programme is excellent; at certain stages of production they have three people working full time on it for each issue.

Isn't that what unpaid interns are for?

 

[rebus]

Isn't that what unpaid interns are for?

You can't produce a programme with interns and we don't have the desk space to accommodate them either.


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[nocoat]

Have a seasonal treasure hunt (Easter/Christmas/Halloween) Put clues in the programme and hide all around griffin park and the winner gets a creme egg and second place gets to get in for £5 rather than the £15 they already paid in advance by buying a season ticket?

 

[nocoat]

I have one mate. Fantasy football or "soccer predictor" and all fans can enter and pay a couple of quid and you print the league table on that. people more likely to buy it if they see their name in lights and it can get nice and competitive and cause a buzz and you can raise money for a new mini bus or your xmas party too. monthly prizes for leaders and highest scorer of just a signed ball or upgrade to directors box. that sort of stuff.

 

[HertfordBee]

You can't produce a programme with interns and we don't have the desk space to accommodate them either.

I honestly believe that there are a number of supporters with the potential, ability and desire to contribute successfully on a regular basis. Just look back at some of the fantastic programme articles submitted by the small team in the late 80's and early 90's. Those people are out there - they just need to be sought out rather than asked to respond to requests for volunteers.

I take Paul's point about the time and effort involved but reward say, three or four people of the right type with a season ticket and you've got your committed team without the need for three full-time members of staff.

If sounds too simple but it's amazing what potential you find if you go digging.

(I'm definately not including myself in the above, in case if sounds like that!!)

 

[GuyBee]

It's mostly set 8 on 10, which is perfectly acceptable for text setting, most newspapers will be set tighter than this. The factors affecting readability are more subtle and to do with the typeface and letterspacing, plus the style of justification and paragraph breaks and how this relates to hyphenation, particularly with rag-right setting such as is used throughout the programme, plus the hardness and whiteness of the paper. It looks to me like certain choices have been forced due to the speed with which each issue has to be put together, and had the choices gone the other way (justification over rag, for instance) then this would have presented different problems and possibly increased time needed for subbing.

My tuppence worth: set most of the text half a point smaller (or a quarter point) on the same leading, but use a heavier-weight face, and vary the justification style such that longer articles (i.e. the ones over 2-columns of 15 picas and where there is more opportunity to prepare in advance) are set justified, insert fewer paragraph breaks, use moderate hyphenation, and—for the non-justified setting—try a more consistent rag (needs hyphenation).

Looking at our Blackpool programme, turning to page 41, I suspect that older eyes will find the questions in bold are far more legible than the answers, but the size is consistent, showing that a larger typeface isn't necessarily the answer. On page 51 (‘Memorabilia’, surely a page which should be set with older eyes in consideration) the wide measure, frequent paragraph breaks, light-weight face and unwarranted rag all mitigate against easy reading.

Overall though, this is nit-picking the detail of a very well-produced programme.

My only comment about the content is that we should return to having actual match reports, not just pictures of the action.

Wow, thats thorough, I dont understand it though

I would like to change my feedback to 'I find it difficult to read'

 

[coconino]

You can't produce a programme with interns and we don't have the desk space to accommodate them either.

Re desk space, people could work on it from anywhere. I don't know what software platform it's done with, but if InDesign for instance, text editing can be done remotely via InCopy while someone else works on the pages. There are other ways of working together via the cloud, e.g. shared asset libraries, etc.

 

[rebus]

Brentford programme

I honestly believe that there are a number of supporters with the potential, ability and desire to contribute successfully on a regular basis. Just look back at some of the fantastic programme articles submitted by the small team in the late 80's and early 90's. Those people are out there - they just need to be sought out rather than asked to respond to requests for volunteers.

I take Paul's point about the time and effort involved but reward say, three or four people of the right type with a season ticket and you've got your committed team without the need for three full-time members of staff.

If sounds too simple but it's amazing what potential you find if you go digging.

(I'm definately not including myself in the above, in case if sounds like that!!)

I couldn't disagree more, there's hardly anyone that can write to the standard required for free or in lieu of payment who is a Brentford fan and knows the club history extremely well.

I would say producing the programme (subbing, enforcing house style), is where full time staff come into play - you can't use volunteers for that process.

That's different from writing for the programme as we accept voluntary submissions already and welcome it.

There are very few people that offer their services on a regular basis who are good enough, and can write to deadline up to 30 times a year but I'm always happy to accommodate it wherever possible.



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[rebus]

Brentford programme

Wow, thats thorough, I dont understand it though



I would like to change my feedback to 'I find it difficult to read'

I was flicking through some of the issues from 1978/79 season today, and the type from that season is extremely small compared to today's edition

The type has been taken down a point this season but I feel it's legible enough.

I'm happy to look at this for next season though.


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[Banana]

I was flicking through some of the issues from 1978/79 season today, and the type from that season is extremely small compared to today's edition

I was younger in 1978.
Sort it out!

 

[bees66]

a few ideas here, why not have a Queen Bee in every one, a nice looking lady wearing a Bees shirt, who's her favourite player etc etc
I know Brentford have some great photographs of the 40's 50's that have never got in the programme, I've seen a funeral parade of an ex Brentford player procession of black cars and tons of people showing their respect it was magnificent very touching..
Players interviews getting asked funny questions by us fans, would be nice to see..

 

[HertfordBee]

... there's hardly anyone that can write to the standard required for free or in lieu of payment who is a Brentford fan ...

That's an astounding assumption to make!

 

[rebus]

That's an astounding assumption to make!

It's a fact unfortunately. Hopefully the number will increase as the club rises up the leagues.


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[Mick.C]

Having spoken to Rebus a few weeks ago, his planning and execution of each edition is impressive and like a military timetable.
It's a labour of love and his knowledge of the clubs history is mastermind standard!
A Suggestion maybe for a resurrected feature for next season, a review of the game of the season starting from a set year say 25 years ago and working forwards year by year towards the present day.
2006/7 may be the only season that will be a struggle!

 

[HertfordBee]

It's a fact unfortunately. Hopefully the number will increase as the club rises up the leagues.

I'll look forward to welcoming these better-educated new supporters...

 

[waster]

I always wonder why we use the smaller page size compared to other clubs. Maybe it's a more "handy" size to hold on a match day but economically print costs and paper wastage are far less if you go larger to a size like he Brighton programme, which also means you can get more info in on each page. Pretty sure this is the case with most printers as the larger size fits their presses better with less wastage.

I think the design is pretty mundane. I only tend to get to southern away games but the variety/(non-match) photography/typography and layout has been much more appealing in programmes like Brighton, or maybe Orient last year. Also definitely agree on not being keen on the all too brief run down on opposition players. I only really buy it now for my son who rushes to the next player photo for the wall in the centre page. I was greeted with a furious outburst when he opened it up queueing to go into the Boro game to see a pic of the ground along with a list of fixtures he could also read again at the back of the programme!

The Huddersfield "programme" is a newspaper size, style and paper quality.