Five-year rolling TAPs model??

[Sheerwater Bee]

f***ing hell..... All these posts and hand wringing for a non existent problem...............

 

[Griffingreen]

Take ST holders TAP's for the last 5 years and add on10% of what they had before that, simples?

 

[AB]

Take ST holders TAP's for the last 5 years and add on10% of what they had before that, simples?

Why 10%?

 

[Griffingreen]

Why 10%?

A bonus for "old skool" to address those who feel their loyalty through thick and thin hasn't been forgotten, maybe 20% if you want to start a bargaining war

 

[AB]

A bonus for "old skool" to address those who feel their loyalty through thick and thin hasn't been forgotten, maybe 20% if you want to start a bargaining war

So ten years of old skool support is only worth 1-2 years of new support?

Maybe going back to the original purpose of TAPs to enable those who come to matches regularly have the best chance of getting tickets in the future and not treating them as a badge of historic loyalty is better. A full year of regular support pre-21 even at 20% barely takes you over the threshold for a member to buy a Cat A home ticket.

 

[Griffingreen]

10% would give a reasonable 5/600+ head start over any one just relying on the last 5 years only, haven't got a calculator handy but wouldn't that be a couple of years TAP's head start?

 

[AB]

10% would give a reasonable 5/600+ head start over any one just relying on the last 5 years only, haven't got a calculator handy but wouldn't that be a couple of years TAP's head start?

It’d be worthwhile for someone who had 5-6k TAPs before we went up and who’d barely come to a match since but would like to get back into ST contention quickly if they started coming regularly. On this thread that is I think @NZ Bee (who iirc didn’t have a problem with the change). It’s a lot of complexity to add for maybe a dozen fans’ benefit.

Those who started from that and have come regularly over the last 4 years will already be almost entirely STHs who’ll remain in the top tiers for away tickets.

 

[pumpkin pie]

The foreunner, loyalty points, which are included in the current TAPs totals, launched in August 2013 I believe.

You can read a bit about its launch here

CLUB MEMBERSHIP 2013/14

New membership scheme launched for upcoming season

web.archive.org

and the GPG reaction

BFC Membership Scheme

Anymore news on this??.............. Should I be re-newing my BIAS Membership or be waiting for the club's 'official' scheme to come out or both??........ How will 'The Charter' work this season??............ :confused: Thanks............

griffinpark.org

Thanks

 

[Wise old Bee]

Exemption for Lifeline members obviously.

 

[Bolivian Rovers]

f***ing hell..... All these posts and hand wringing for a non existent problem...............

You're bored Fun Boy 1

 

[cheshirebee]

So ten years of old skool support is only worth 1-2 years of new support?

Maybe going back to the original purpose of TAPs to enable those who come to matches regularly have the best chance of getting tickets in the future and not treating them as a badge of historic loyalty is better. A full year of regular support pre-21 even at 20% barely takes you over the threshold for a member to buy a Cat A home ticket.

Obviously not but it is worth something.
I do think there should be some sensitivity to some ‘old skool’ fans who perhaps haven’t managed the TAPs era that well and/or have had changes in life circumstance. Not sure what the answer is but they are out there and whilst my first instinct has been to think ‘well it’s their own fault’, having met one or two recently it is a quite sad situation. There is a feeling of being forgotten and dismissed by the club thats been a huge part of their life for many decades.

 

[hobbsy]

Obviously not but it is worth something.
I do think there should be some sensitivity to some ‘old skool’ fans who perhaps haven’t managed the TAPs era that well and/or have had changes in life circumstance. Not sure what the answer is but they are out there and whilst my first instinct has been to think ‘well it’s their own fault’, having met one or two recently it is a quite sad situation. There is a feeling of being forgotten and dismissed by the club thats been a huge part of their life for many decades.

Can you provide some more details on this case ? Have they been asking other people to buy tickets ?

 

[cheshirebee]

Can you provide some more details on this case ? Have they been asking other people to buy tickets ?

Yes, four or five that I specifically know rely mostly on old mates (sometimes me) getting them tickets for the occasional game. This of course means they don’t build any TAPs for themselves and so the spiral goes on.
As I say, easy to say it’s their own fault (which of course it is to a degree), but is still a little sad.
I don’t think there’s an answer tbf, but I just think the club should have some sensitivity to the fact that such fans do exist (maybe if only in comms).

 

[hobbsy]

Yes, four or five that I specifically know rely mostly on old mates (sometimes me) getting them tickets for the occasional game. This of course means they don’t build any TAPs for themselves and so the spiral goes on.
As I say, easy to say it’s their own fault (which of course it is to a degree), but is still a little sad.
I don’t think there’s an answer tbf, but I just think the club should have some sensitivity to the fact that such ‘fans’ do exist (maybe if only in comms).

Okay, but who do you allocate the tickets to when you buy them ? Or are you using someone elses priority ? If the latter is the case then that can continue.

 

[Sheerwater Bee]

You're bored Fun Boy 1

I was in between conference calls dealing with the fall from of the Barclays debacle. Where's Banana when you need him!! And thought I'd have a look..

 

[AB]

Yes, four or five that I specifically know rely mostly on old mates (sometimes me) getting them tickets for the occasional game. This of course means they don’t build any TAPs for themselves and so the spiral goes on.
As I say, easy to say it’s their own fault (which of course it is to a degree), but is still a little sad.
I don’t think there’s an answer tbf, but I just think the club should have some sensitivity to the fact that such fans do exist (maybe if only in comms).

This is I think a different issue as such folks are also I’d expect be often unlikely to have built up a lot of TAPs pre 2021 despite going for years. I was in the same position myself having gone to lots of games over 25+ years but only having had a membership 14-15 and only then because it was needed to buy a ticket for Bournemouth away. Almost none of the home games I went to earned me TAPs as I paid cash at the turnstile and didn’t get TAPs until we moved to having to buy at the portacabin and them asking if I had a fan number (which I only got because of that one year’s membership) and same for the largely high TAPs northern aways. If these guys are anything like that they like me would probably only have had a couple of hundred TAPs for years of games.

It certainly needs looking at though, particularly in the context of moving in the future to digital ticketing becoming required for the majority.

If they did hold STs and memberships and always bought through the club all those years and just got overwhelmed by the ticketing process since promotion that will have needed investigation for a long time distinct from the TAPs change.

 

[Indian Bee]

Interesting read ?

No impact for me and guess no impact for the vast majority.
TAPs being wiped out just dents a few egos.
As some have suggested above - only really affects a couple of away games each season.
Suggestions that ST holders who have built up TAPs may be selling their tickets - which is a problem that needs rooting out.
ST holders who continue to go to away games and have genuinely built up the TAPs should always have first priority
Having met a Yusuf at a Brentford game - a new Bees fan who only came to Bees when we reached the PL is probably more vocal in his support for the club than most of those sitting around me. A great addition to our fan base ?
We do need a system that continues to encourage new supporters - not their fault their parents didn’t conceive 30/40 years later than most parents on GPG.

 

[rebus]

According to an email sent by the club in May 2021 to me about play off final ticket sales, I was in the 1900-2500 TAPs bracket at that time. By that calculation, I will lose up to 2,500 at the end of this season.

Others may want to check the same to see where they might end up. How many taps if you’ve seen every game since August 2021?

 

[Banana]

According to an email sent by the club in May 2021 to me about play off final ticket sales, I was in the 1900-2500 TAPs bracket at that time. By that calculation, I will lose up to 2,500 at the end of this season.

Others may want to check the same to see where they might end up. How many taps if you’ve seen every game since August 2021?

“Less (sic) than 3000” ?

 

[pumpkin pie]

According to an email sent by the club in May 2021 to me about play off final ticket sales, I was in the 1900-2500 TAPs bracket at that time. By that calculation, I will lose up to 2,500 at the end of this season.

Others may want to check the same to see where they might end up. How many taps if you’ve seen every game since August 2021?

You can't check that now. Up until the ticket master you could look back years on your account history. I no longer have emails going back that far.

 

[josht]

According to an email sent by the club in May 2021 to me about play off final ticket sales, I was in the 1900-2500 TAPs bracket at that time. By that calculation, I will lose up to 2,500 at the end of this season.

Others may want to check the same to see where they might end up. How many taps if you’ve seen every game since August 2021?

Looks like I'll be dropping down the ladder quite significantly if this 5 year rule kicks in. I was on 2,850 according to my playoff final email.

Having gone to probably 85%-90% of away games from 2010-2019, and been a season ticket holder for most of the last 30 years, my son was born in 2019 and daughter in 2022. Those two arriving has curtailed my away days to a large degree since we got promoted. I'll likely do 65%+ of away games this season, but struggled to do more than 5 or so out of London in the last few seasons for fear of divorce (less of a deterrent than it used to be...).

I plan on going away more frequently from now on, but this 5 year TAPS rule could drop me well down into the lower half of the 3,000s, and knock me several tranches down for ticket releases for a number of games.

I do understand the need to continually attract new fans, yet limiting it to 5 years seems fairly heavy-handed to me. But maybe that's just my view based on where I sit in the scheme of things.

 

[BEEcool]

Looks like I'll be dropping down the ladder quite significantly if this 5 year rule kicks in. I was on 2,850 according to my playoff final email.

Having gone to probably 85%-90% of away games from 2010-2019, and been a season ticket holder for most of the last 30 years, my son was born in 2019 and daughter in 2022. Those two arriving has curtailed my away days to a large degree since we got promoted. I'll likely do 65%+ of away games this season, but struggled to do more than 5 or so out of London in the last few seasons for fear of divorce (less of a deterrent than it used to be...).

I plan on going away more frequently from now on, but this 5 year TAPS rule could drop me well down into the lower half of the 3,000s, and knock me several tranches down for ticket releases for a number of games.

I do understand the need to continually attract new fans, yet limiting it to 5 years seems fairly heavy-handed to me. But maybe that's just my view based on where I sit in the scheme of things.

Very similar scenario to my own.

I know I’ll still get the option to buy tickets for the majority of aways but struggling to wrap my head around the idea that I’m probably going to be leapfrogged by a mate that showed little interest in Brentford until we made it in to the Premier League.

Also bugs me a bit that the overhaul is coming shortly after the choose your own seat feature has come in for aways.

 

[Banana]

Also bugs me a bit that the overhaul is coming shortly after the choose your own seat feature has come in for aways.

Why is this?

 

[Alex]

Looks like I'll be dropping down the ladder quite significantly if this 5 year rule kicks in. I was on 2,850 according to my playoff final email.

Having gone to probably 85%-90% of away games from 2010-2019, and been a season ticket holder for most of the last 30 years, my son was born in 2019 and daughter in 2022. Those two arriving has curtailed my away days to a large degree since we got promoted. I'll likely do 65%+ of away games this season, but struggled to do more than 5 or so out of London in the last few seasons for fear of divorce (less of a deterrent than it used to be...).

I plan on going away more frequently from now on, but this 5 year TAPS rule could drop me well down into the lower half of the 3,000s, and knock me several tranches down for ticket releases for a number of games.

I do understand the need to continually attract new fans, yet limiting it to 5 years seems fairly heavy-handed to me. But maybe that's just my view based on where I sit in the scheme of things.

you might also find yourself nearer the top, really best just to wait and see

 

[BEEcool]

Why is this?

Because there has been little benefit to being in the upper echelons of the TAPs league (save for the odd Luton, Bournemouth game etc) until the choose your own seat function came in but just when having 6,000 TAPs has become useful, it’s going to be taken away.

 

[Edmundo]

According to an email sent by the club in May 2021 to me about play off final ticket sales, I was in the 1900-2500 TAPs bracket at that time. By that calculation, I will lose up to 2,500 at the end of this season.

Others may want to check the same to see where they might end up. How many taps if you’ve seen every game since August 2021?

But knowing how many TAPs you lose doesn’t really tell you where you end up in a scenario where everyone else is also losing TAPs.

 

[josht]

you might also find yourself nearer the top, really best just to wait and see

I used "if" and "could" quite a bit in my post, as it's clearly being discussed behind the scenes but we've little detail as of yet. But surely it's best to raise points and questions now rather than waiting and seeing, as I can imagine trying to object after the decision will be completely pointless.

Could it be better to have your TAPs adjusted in tranches themselves? i.e. you lose a third from pre-2020 one year, another third the next year and so on on a rolling basis.

That could avoid having certain supporters stuck in the grey areas having their TAPs unceremoniously chopped in half, whilst acknowledging their recent pre-EPL away support, but also allowing for pre-2020 TAPs to be phased out entirely after 3 years and all supporters to be able to adjust accordingly... with a fair amount of notice.

 

[Edmundo]

I’m still struggling to see why the people who have been going most in recent years shouldn’t be at the top of the list when it comes to matches where demand exceeds supply.

 

[KcBee]

Not sure what all the fuss is about tbh. Other than Luton and possibly Bournemouth if you’ve wanted an away ticket 9/10 you’ll get one? The last few seasons our away demand has reduced and I don’t see that changing too much…

 

[Banana]

That could avoid having certain supporters stuck in the grey areas

Eh?

 

[Alex]

I used "if" and "could" quite a bit in my post, as it's clearly being discussed behind the scenes but we've little detail as of yet. But surely it's best to raise points and questions now rather than waiting and seeing, as I can imagine trying to object after the decision will be completely pointless.

Could it be better to have your TAPs adjusted in tranches themselves? i.e. you lose a third from pre-2020 one year, another third the next year and so on on a rolling basis.

That could avoid having certain supporters stuck in the grey areas having their TAPs unceremoniously chopped in half, whilst acknowledging their recent pre-EPL away support, but also allowing for pre-2020 TAPs to be phased out entirely after 3 years and all supporters to be able to adjust accordingly... with a fair amount of notice.

You need to wait and see for the details from the club, until then it’s all ifs and coulds as there is nothing to object to.

It is possible for you to go up not down if there’s high TAPs holders that only attend home games who are above you today, they wouldn’t be if this happened.

 

[Banana]

That could avoid having certain supporters stuck in the grey areas having their TAPs unceremoniously chopped in half, whilst acknowledging their recent pre-EPL away support, but also allowing for pre-2020 TAPs to be phased out entirely after 3 years and all supporters to be able to adjust accordingly... with a fair amount of notice.

You're assuming a lot of bad things will happen

Also, how will the 21 year old kid have the opportunity to be rewarded for their pre-EPL/Championship away support?

Can you imagine if tickets for the Liverpool 1988 cup run were given to all the OAPs that come out of the woodwork demanding our tickets because they went to Bradford PA (A) in the 1950s?

 

[AB]

Not sure what all the fuss is about tbh. Other than Luton and possibly Bournemouth if you’ve wanted an away ticket 9/10 you’ll get one? The last few seasons our away demand has reduced and I don’t see that changing too much…

Part of the intention is to encourage more to attend away games (and there will be other initiatives to promote this like the £10 kids away tickets being subsidised by the club).

There are likely to be fans who go a lot but write off even thinking about some more popular games when they see they are in tranche 3 or 4. Even if quite often those games go out to all members, if a fan on seeing the sales schedule feels it’s not worth setting aside the day, booking travel/accommodation when cheapest because of the risk of missing out, they’re taken out of the equation. Particularly if they know their kids are a couple of tranches further down and won’t buy without them. Not everyone knows that most games don’t sell out to the top tier and that there are c1000 in it who never go to away games.

 

[W5BeesFan]

Is away ticket availability an issue outside.of a few of the smaller grounds we visit? I think we returned tickets or at least had reduced allocations at Forest last year and Villa this year (and probanly others). Might be linked to the novelty of the EPL wearing off a little now 4 seasons in.

 

[josht]

Can you imagine if tickets for the Liverpool 1988 cup run were given to all the OAPs that come out of the woodwork demanding our tickets because they went to Bradford PA (A) in the 1950s?

You are, of course, correct. You make a great point. A decade of near constant away support just prior to a potential TAPs cut-off date is the exact equivalent to your suggestion of attending one away game 30+ years before a specific fixture and demanding to be at the front of the queue. No hyperbole here.

 

[Ashfordbees]

I just wish it would get announced tbh, send the emails out and let people know where they stand. In the last 5 years, covid apart, I have made every home game and roughly 10 out of 19 away games, can’t do more because of work, but what does that mean? The reason people worry, overthink, or whatever you would like to call it is natural, I have felt incredibly anxious over this, which for some may sound silly, I have always been an over thinker it’s the way I’m designed, but all people are really doing, is thinking of the negatives because they have not had what it means to them explained.

 

[Banana]

I just wish it would get announced tbh, send the emails out and let people know where they stand. In the last 5 years, covid apart, I have made every home game and roughly 10 out of 19 away games, can’t do more because of work, but what does that mean? The reason people worry, overthink, or whatever you would like to call it is natural, I have felt incredibly anxious over this, which for some may sound silly, I have always been an over thinker it’s the way I’m designed, but all people are really doing, is thinking of the negatives because they have not had what it means to them explained.

Fully appreciate all of that and we have impressed the same points on the club. To be fair they are taking on-board all the feedback. Suspect it will be next week until you hear anything from them however.

In the meantime, I would just imagine nothing is happening and this thread doesn't even exist. It makes life more bearable, but a little bit more dull too.

 

[AB]

I just wish it would get announced tbh, send the emails out and let people know where they stand. In the last 5 years, covid apart, I have made every home game and roughly 10 out of 19 away games, can’t do more because of work, but what does that mean? The reason people worry, overthink, or whatever you would like to call it is natural, I have felt incredibly anxious over this, which for some may sound silly, I have always been an over thinker it’s the way I’m designed, but all people are really doing, is thinking of the negatives because they have not had what it means to them explained.

It is unfortunate that this thread was started before the detail of the changes was communicated publicly by the club and can quite understand how many like you can only speculate about the possible adverse consequences.

Many of the points raised here should be addressed in the official announcement and/or were discussed between BIAS/BU and the club (eg alternative models were looked at and decided against). Hopefully we should all hear soon!

 

[Ashfordbees]

It is unfortunate that this thread was started before the detail of the changes was communicated publicly by the club and can quite understand how many like you can only speculate about the possible adverse consequences.

Many of the points raised here should be addressed in the official announcement and/or were discussed between BIAS/BU and the club (eg alternative models were looked at and decided against). Hopefully we should all hear soon!

There was always going to be changes, I’m in tranche 1 now, there maybe people now who push me down the tranche bracket slightly. And that’s fine, I perfectly understand that there will be fans who do more than me. All I want to do is spend time with my mates at the football, and the chances are with what I do with the games I go to, the majority of away games it will not affect me. But it’s hard not to overthink it.

 

[chris1969]

But knowing how many TAPs you lose doesn’t really tell you where you end up in a scenario where everyone else is also losing TAPs.

Oh, so everyone is losing TAPs, doubt it mate.

 

[Ashfordbees]

Fully appreciate all of that and we have impressed the same points on the club. To be fair they are taking on-board all the feedback. Suspect it will be next week until you hear anything from them however.

In the meantime, I would just imagine nothing is happening and this thread doesn't even exist. It makes life more bearable, but a little bit more dull too.

I don’t message an awful lot, but I do log on regularly to read, I’ll continue to read this thread, as you say life would be dull without threads like this.

 

[Edmundo]

Oh, so everyone is losing TAPs, doubt it mate.

I guess the only people not losing TAPs are those that only started collecting ting them five years ago. But what matters is not how many TAPs you have, but which tranche you are in when it comes to Fulham (A) - and, personally, I don't think priority for that match should go to old-timers who no longer bother with aways.

 

[Jezybee]

Having read the debate on this thread, generally appears a pragmatic approach, as long as:
• There is no priority jumping due to the sort of season ticket you hold (e.g. Premium getting a boost)
• The club can demonstrate how they are proactively identifying & removing people who have bought season tickets (& away tickets) since start of EPL era primarily to re-sell them for profit.

Due to fan group input, suspect the former is not a concern. Even without their involvement, you’d (naively?) hope that’s not something the club would do.

The cancellation of historic TAPs would give people in the latter category greater access to tickets. A way to cover this off, would be for the club could publicise how they are cancelling season tickets & TAPs of people engaged in re-sale practices.

E.g. an employee / agency goes onto StubHub, Seat Wave, Twitter, Facebook as prospective purchasers to identify those regularly re-selling tickets and the club publishing the number of cancellations. Demonstrating the number of people doing this is very small would be a result in itself.

 

[8corner]

You need to wait and see for the details from the club, until then it’s all ifs and coulds as there is nothing to object to.

It is possible for you to go up not down if there’s high TAPs holders that only attend home games who are above you today, they wouldn’t be if this happened.

and indeed, Why?

 

[8corner]

Part of the intention is to encourage more to attend away games (and there will be other initiatives to promote this like the £10 kids away tickets being subsidised by the club).

There are likely to be fans who go a lot but write off even thinking about some more popular games when they see they are in tranche 3 or 4. Even if quite often those games go out to all members, if a fan on seeing the sales schedule feels it’s not worth setting aside the day, booking travel/accommodation when cheapest because of the risk of missing out, they’re taken out of the equation. Particularly if they know their kids are a couple of tranches further down and won’t buy without them. Not everyone knows that most games don’t sell out to the top tier and that there are c1000 in it who never go to away games.

Yet another scenario just tossed out there without any facts or quantification.

It still seems that you are trying to "solve" a "problem" without even saying what the problem is and quantifying it. You may not be able to say what is proposed (or possibly done deal) until the Club communicates it but surely you can succinctly outline what the issue(s) is with the current system and the size of the problem - without breaching any trust.

 

[cheshirebee]

There was always going to be changes, I’m in tranche 1 now, there maybe people now who push me down the tranche bracket slightly. And that’s fine, I perfectly understand that there will be fans who do more than me. All I want to do is spend time with my mates at the football, and the chances are with what I do with the games I go to, the majority of away games it will not affect me. But it’s hard not to overthink it.

Sounds like you are far more likely to go higher on the TAPs ladder as you will jump ahead of those who have high historical TAPs but have not been so active as you over the last 5 years.

 

[AB]

Yet another scenario just tossed out there without any facts or quantification.

It still seems that you are trying to "solve" a "problem" without even saying what the problem is and quantifying it. You may not be able to say what is proposed (or possibly done deal) until the Club communicates it but surely you can succinctly outline what the issue(s) is with the current system and the size of the problem - without breaching any trust.

It’s a scenario I’ve personally experienced. It is though quite a hard one to quantify.

The issue is that there has become a significant imbalance between how many TAPs at the top end STs and members have and their actual interest in going to games now. Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season. So the system of prioritising access to tickets by TAPs at the top end is giving guaranteed access to large numbers of by definition long term fans who do not actually want or use it. Which puts those who may have fewer TAPs from years back but who do go now and want to go now further down the queue.

Of course most home and away games don’t fully sell out so it is possible for those lower down the pecking order to get tickets if they are willing to put in a lot more time and effort watching the progress of ticket sales, windows, keeping the Exchange open on their PC, keeping their other plans on hold until they see the “sold out” messages. But that inconvenience and expectation of effort is increasingly substantial a price to pay to keep open making it trivially easy for some long term fans who don’t actually want to go to games as much now to buy a ticket if they change their mind.

So the point was to keep it as easy as possible for long term fans who still go to keep going while making it easier for newer fans who go and want to go a lot. If we want to grow the fanbase it is a good idea to make getting tickets not such a huge palaver for newer fans. Most people on the GPG do in fact organise their lives, holidays, family lives around the fixture list and on sale dates etc, blocking matchdays out in anticipation. But there are lots who haven’t quite integrated that level of fandom into their lives yet. And they never will if they feel the chances of getting to go regularly are too difficult and low with many thousands ahead of them.

 

[rebus]

It’s a scenario I’ve personally experienced. It is though quite a hard one to quantify.

The issue is that there has become a significant imbalance between how many TAPs at the top end STs and members have and their actual interest in going to games now. Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season. So the system of prioritising access to tickets by TAPs at the top end is giving guaranteed access to large numbers of by definition long term fans who do not actually want or use it. Which puts those who may have fewer TAPs from years back but who do go now and want to go now further down the queue.

Of course most home and away games don’t fully sell out so it is possible for those lower down the pecking order to get tickets if they are willing to put in a lot more time and effort watching the progress of ticket sales, windows, keeping the Exchange open on their PC, keeping their other plans on hold until they see the “sold out” messages. But that inconvenience and expectation of effort is increasingly substantial a price to pay to keep open making it trivially easy for some long term fans who don’t actually want to go to games as much now to buy a ticket if they change their mind.

So the point was to keep it as easy as possible for long term fans who still go to keep going while making it easier for newer fans who go and want to go a lot. If we want to grow the fanbase it is a good idea to make getting tickets not such a huge palaver for newer fans. Most people on the GPG do in fact organise their lives, holidays, family lives around the fixture list and on sale dates etc, blocking matchdays out in anticipation. But there are lots who haven’t quite integrated that level of fandom into their lives yet. And they never will if they feel the chances of getting to go regularly are too difficult and low with many thousands ahead of them.

Probably the best post on this thread.

 

[nick logan]

AB , i have always said ST holders should only have ever got a token thank you amount of points

Points should have only ever been awarded for away games .

 

[Paul_T]

Is it really the case that about half top TAPs ST holders haven't been home or away this season?

"Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season."

That's staggering if so. Why are they buying ST's?