Five-year rolling TAPs model??

[Inappropriate Smilies Bee]

A bonus for "old skool" to address those who feel their loyalty through thick and thin hasn't been forgotten, maybe 20% if you want to start a bargaining war

I’d do the opposite. No taps for home games since 2021 and double the TAPS from pre-2014.

 

[AB]

Is it really the case that about half top TAPs ST holders haven't been home or away this season?

"Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season."

That's staggering if so. Why are they buying ST's?

Yes it is true. They buy their STs to go to home games.

Though there are a surprisingly large number of STHs who don’t actually go to many/any of those either (a few may be touts obvs but the vast majority not and are in fact dutifully putting their tickets on the Exchange- a thing for another discussion that is ongoing and more detailed data analysis though).

 

[Paul_T]

Yes it is true. They buy their STs to go to home games.

Though there are a surprisingly large number of STHs who don’t actually go to many/any of those either (a few may be touts obvs but the vast majority not and are in fact dutifully putting their tickets on the Exchange- a thing for another discussion that is ongoing and more detailed data analysis though).

Thanks, very surprised about that.

 

[Bolivian Rovers]

I don't think there is nothing to change, people always want what they can't have and as an earlier posted nemtioned, nominal TAPS should be awarded for a ST and it's the away games that really matter. I think @Sheerwater Bee should be a spokesman on behalf of the supporters over 50. As Always Up The Bees

 

[AB]

Thanks, very surprised about that.

BIAS has had an ongoing battle to get more of this sort of data from the club. It is getting better at it and I’ve noticed over the last year or so that this off field stuff is becoming much more data driven and the value of data spreading from the football department into the off field work.

As in this context, quite often the data shows quite different fan behaviour to what we as fans would assume to be how we and our fellow fans actually behave.

 

[Truth_hurts]

Yes it is true. They buy their STs to go to home games.

Though there are a surprisingly large number of STHs who don’t actually go to many/any of those either (a few may be touts obvs but the vast majority not and are in fact dutifully putting their tickets on the Exchange- a thing for another discussion that is ongoing and more detailed data analysis though).

I doubt that bothers the powers that be though?

For the simple reason that it makes sense for the club to buy back tickets at a reduced rate and to sell them on at matchday prices.

So from a purely monetary aspect I can’t see much incentive for the club to particularly look in to STHs home game attendances.

 

[daddybee]

If half of the top tranche tap holders don’t go to away games and don’t even bother going to home games, I’m struggling to see how they’re stopping people with less taps getting tickets

 

[PhilE]

If half of the top tranche tap holders don’t go to away games and don’t even bother going to home games, I’m struggling to see how they’re stopping people with less taps getting tickets

Not stopping so much, I would imagine, as splitting the tranches and causing issues with parents having to wait to add other family members.

 

[PhilE]

Thanks, very surprised about that.

Some people just don't do away matches. I have a ST mate of 7-8 years - has 3k+ TAP but has been away once - and even then only because I dragged him.

 

[Paul_T]

Some people just don't do away matches. I have a ST mate of 7-8 years - has 3k+ TAP but has been away once - and even then only because I dragged him.

But AB said that as well as away games, about half of current ST games don't do home games either. Of course not everyone can, or wants to, do aways (although I don't know why you wouldn't want to if you can afford to). Just strikes me as odd to spend £500+ and then never go home or away.

 

[AB]

I doubt that bothers the powers that be though?

For the simple reason that it makes sense for the club to buy back tickets at a reduced rate and to sell them on at matchday prices.

So from a purely monetary aspect I can’t see much incentive for the club to particularly look in to STHs home game attendances.

The club is very interested in STH usage rates and who actually attends matches. It’s an area where while maybe coming from different directions the commercial interest and the fan interest aligns. It’s not just about bums on seats but on whose bums are on the seats and how invested they are over time. The club is not Fulhamishly going for revenue maximisation and not caring about who’s paying- it and we need to encourage those coming to be or become fans who will support over time, not just because we are great today.

It’s being looked at in a separate workstream. There is an argument for having all the inter-related issues dealt with in one go and the way the rationales for each element could then have been shown to support each other. But I think that would have been unmanageable and even harder to communicate well or be understood than just this move to rolling TAPs alone.

 

[AB]

But AB said that as well as away games, about half of current ST games don't do home games either. Of course not everyone can, or wants to, do aways (although I don't know why you wouldn't want to if you can afford to). Just strikes me as odd to spend £500+ and then never go home or away.

No, about half of top tranche TAPs members, not STs! The proportion of STHs who go to few home games is much lower but not negligible (it’s approximately 5-10% from memory). It’s come down a lot particularly since Every Seat Counts (and the dreadfully branded Yellow Cards) which started with 10% of ST seats being left empty but is still there even if the seats are at least now being filled.

Apologies if I was unclear!

 

[PhilE]

But AB said that as well as away games, about half of current ST games don't do home games either. Of course not everyone can, or wants to, do aways (although I don't know why you wouldn't want to if you can afford to). Just strikes me as odd to spend £500+ and then never go home or away.

AB said:
"Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season."

he later added that

"there are a surprisingly large number of STHs who don’t actually go to many/any of those (home games) either"

 

[Walshie]

Some people just don't do away matches. I have a ST mate of 7-8 years - has 3k+ TAP but has been away once - and even then only because I dragged him.

I am in this boat. STH, go to all homes, but that's enough football for me. No interest in aways and like to do other things aside from football.

 

[Paul_T]

No, about half of top tranche TAPs members, not STs! The proportion of STHs who go to few home games is much lower but not negligible (it’s approximately 5-10% from memory). It’s come down a lot particularly since Every Seat Counts (and the dreadfully branded Yellow Cards) which started with 10% of ST seats being left empty but is still there even if the seats are at least now being filled.

Apologies if I was unclear!

Thanks, was getting my mucking words fuddled....

 

[AB]

Thanks, was getting my mucking words fuddled....

No problem. You reminded me that talking about proportions and absolute numbers in the same comment can be a bit unclear.

 

[Truth_hurts]

But AB said that as well as away games, about half of current ST games don't do home games either. Of course not everyone can, or wants to, do aways (although I don't know why you wouldn't want to if you can afford to). Just strikes me as odd to spend £500+ and then never go home or away.

Maybe they’ve moved abroad and want the option open to them that they can go to the Gtech once they’re back?

 

[AB]

Maybe they’ve moved abroad and want the option open to them that they can go to the Gtech once they’re back?

Maybe. Is this in the interests of fans as a whole or the club to support in the current way? Maybe not.

 

[jlove]

I’m happy to be represented by BIAS and I’m just waiting for the new process in the knowledge that, if the fans’ organisations have been fairly represented, we’ll end up with a simple, understandable system that works for the majority.

Of course, anything that satisfies a majority will have a minority who feel aggrieved but inventing scenarios that identify a member of that minority without knowing the new rules seems like mental masturbation to me.

 

[rebus]

I doubt that bothers the powers that be though?

For the simple reason that it makes sense for the club to buy back tickets at a reduced rate and to sell them on at matchday prices.

So from a purely monetary aspect I can’t see much incentive for the club to particularly look in to STHs home game attendances.

The money gained is pittance compared to tv revenues.

 

[Truth_hurts]

I am in this boat. STH, go to all homes, but that's enough football for me. No interest in aways and like to do other things aside from football.

You mean to say there’s more to life than football???? Wtaf???

 

[Truth_hurts]

The money gained is pittance compared to tv revenues.

A well run business tries to maximise its profits where it can and within reason, in all areas, no matter how big or small.

 

[Jay Bee]

A well run business tries to maximise its profits where it can, in all areas, no matter how big or small.

BFC have just discounted junior tickets to £10 for away fans, and are subsidising our own away juniors to the same price.
Does that mean BFC are not a well run business? Perhaps the club does not actually feel obliged to "maximise its profits where it can, in all areas, no matter how big or small"?

 

[Truth_hurts]

BFC have just discounted junior tickets to £10 for away fans, and are subsidising our own away juniors to the same price.
Does that mean BFC are not a well run business? Perhaps the club does not actually feel obliged to "maximise its profits where it can, in all areas, no matter how big or small"?

That’s why I edited it and said “within reason “ .. there’s obviously extreme lengths one can go to where you then start to alienate fans (eg Ratcliffe at Utd).

When it comes to junior ticket pricing, from a business sense it is logical to charge less to youngsters to encourage them to become fans for life.
Maximising current and future revenue is still the driving force behind that initiative, rather than any philanthropic generosity.

 

[8corner]

No, about half of top tranche TAPs members, not STs! The proportion of STHs who go to few home games is much lower but not negligible (it’s approximately 5-10% from memory). It’s come down a lot particularly since Every Seat Counts (and the dreadfully branded Yellow Cards) which started with 10% of ST seats being left empty but is still there even if the seats are at least now being filled.

Apologies if I was unclear!

@AB if c. 50% of STH aren't going away (and there hasn't - rightly so - been the Kurtie Bonus on ST for a number of years) then the newer Bees who want to (and can)fill their boots will be flying up on the rails and overtaking those who aren't going. Aren't they/couldn't they?

I'm also surprised that somewhere like 500 - 1,000 STH regularly can't go to/don't bother going to home games. I'm not sure how it works at present, but you shouldn't get TAPs if you don't attend. Admittedly hard to enforce for those simply passing on to a mate on an odd occasion they can't use it, but if it goes on the exchange, no yellow card but also, no TAPs. Seems a simple and sensible rule change if needed.

Members. There may be a reasonable number of Bees (particularly overseas Bees) who can't get/don't want to go to many/any games (home or away) but want to proudly show their affinity to the Club. If so, fair play to them. How many members have applied for home tickets and not been able to get any. It can't be many as we don't really ever sell out (do we?).

Could a solution be to tweak the current system (without the need to scrap any TAPs already awarded):
1. No TAPs if not attending in person.
2. If you don't go to/put your ST on the exchange (without valid reason e.g. period of illness) for 13 of the 19 home games (2/3) then you can't renew. You shouldn't need a ST if you're only going to 5 or 6 games a season.
3. Fewer tranches for away games - maybe just 2 or 3 at most. Put tickets on sale early - say 6 weeks before the game with plenty of notice (not a day or two beforehand) of sale dates and give short but reasonable windows. That would help give certainty to groups who have F&F at different levels of when they can get tickets and also provide the tickets not being taken up by the top TAPpers (who must be sliding down the table in any event).

Would that work (or have I jumped the gun and pre-empted the announcement)?

 

[PhilE]

A well run business tries to maximise its profits where it can and within reason, in all areas, no matter how big or small.

I would argue (as @Jay Bee does specifically for Brentford) that for any well-run business, maximising profits should only occur within currently (and arguably future) acceptable ethical norms. It's a stretch but BFC may consider it has an ethical responsibility to ensure as many supporters as possible are able to buy a ST.

 

[Deanos196]

A lot of premier league clubs employee an away season ticket basically away membership accruing points for away games attended completely seperate from home games not sure if this was ever floated to the club.

 

[Truth_hurts]

@AB if c. 50% of STH aren't going away (and there hasn't - rightly so - been the Kurtie Bonus on ST for a number of years) then the newer Bees who want to (and can)fill their boots will be flying up on the rails and overtaking those who aren't going. Aren't they/couldn't they?

I'm also surprised that somewhere like 500 - 1,000 STH regularly can't go to/don't bother going to home games. I'm not sure how it works at present, but you shouldn't get TAPs if you don't attend. Admittedly hard to enforce for those simply passing on to a mate on an odd occasion they can't use it, but if it goes on the exchange, no yellow card but also, no TAPs. Seems a simple and sensible rule change if needed.

Members. There may be a reasonable number of Bees (particularly overseas Bees) who can't get/don't want to go to many/any games (home or away) but want to proudly show their affinity to the Club. If so, fair play to them. How many members have applied for home tickets and not been able to get any. It can't be many as we don't really ever sell out (do we?).

Could a solution be to tweak the current system (without the need to scrap any TAPs already awarded):
1. No TAPs if not attending in person.
2. If you don't go to/put your ST on the exchange (without valid reason e.g. period of illness) for 13 of the 19 home games (2/3) then you can't renew. You shouldn't need a ST if you're only going to 5 or 6 games a season.
3. Fewer tranches for away games - maybe just 2 or 3 at most. Put tickets on sale early - say 6 weeks before the game with plenty of notice (not a day or two beforehand) of sale dates and give short but reasonable windows. That would help give certainty to groups who have F&F at different levels of when they can get tickets and also provide the tickets not being taken up by the top TAPpers (who must be sliding down the table in any event).

Would that work (or have I jumped the gun and pre-empted the announcement)?

Yeah I think there should be a limit on how many times over the course of several years you stick your ticket on the exchange.
Fine for a season if you can’t attend for personal or work-related reasons, but if every season you’re sticking your ticket on the exchange for every game then that needs addressing.

And yes for sure no TAPs for games you’ve listed on exchange. I’m surprised if that is the case?

 

[Jay Bee]

I'm also surprised that somewhere like 500 - 1,000
Members. There may be a reasonable number of Bees (particularly overseas Bees) who can't get/don't want to go to many/any games (home or away) but want to proudly show their affinity to the Club. If so, fair play to them. How many members have applied for home tickets and not been able to get any. It can't be many as we don't really ever sell out (do we?).

Every home league game sells out weeks before the game. Usually on the day it goes on the widest member sale when the second 50% are released.
Tickets going on the exchange late on and not being sold is a "thing" but those are still "sold" seats

 

[8corner]

Every home league game sells out weeks before the game. Usually on the day it goes on the widest member sale when the second 50% are released.
Tickets going on the exchange late on and not being sold is a "thing" but those are still "sold" seats

Thank you.

 

[RAF_Patto]

A lot of premier league clubs employee an away season ticket basically away membership accruing points for away games attended completely seperate from home games not sure if this was ever floated to the club.

I think that could make it an even more closed shop. My mate is a L**ds fan ? and he hates when the club do these incentives, as it means those purchasing just sell them on for the games they can't go to, or give them to a mate. Ultimately meaning when their big games come along, let's say a Play-off final, they're guaranteed a ticket even if they've not actually been to that many away games.

 

[AB]

@AB if c. 50% of STH aren't going away (and there hasn't - rightly so - been the Kurtie Bonus on ST for a number of years) then the newer Bees who want to (and can)fill their boots will be flying up on the rails and overtaking those who aren't going. Aren't they/couldn't they?

I'm also surprised that somewhere like 500 - 1,000 STH regularly can't go to/don't bother going to home games. I'm not sure how it works at present, but you shouldn't get TAPs if you don't attend. Admittedly hard to enforce for those simply passing on to a mate on an odd occasion they can't use it, but if it goes on the exchange, no yellow card but also, no TAPs. Seems a simple and sensible rule change if needed.

Members. There may be a reasonable number of Bees (particularly overseas Bees) who can't get/don't want to go to many/any games (home or away) but want to proudly show their affinity to the Club. If so, fair play to them. How many members have applied for home tickets and not been able to get any. It can't be many as we don't really ever sell out (do we?).

Could a solution be to tweak the current system (without the need to scrap any TAPs already awarded):
1. No TAPs if not attending in person.
2. If you don't go to/put your ST on the exchange (without valid reason e.g. period of illness) for 13 of the 19 home games (2/3) then you can't renew. You shouldn't need a ST if you're only going to 5 or 6 games a season.
3. Fewer tranches for away games - maybe just 2 or 3 at most. Put tickets on sale early - say 6 weeks before the game with plenty of notice (not a day or two beforehand) of sale dates and give short but reasonable windows. That would help give certainty to groups who have F&F at different levels of when they can get tickets and also provide the tickets not being taken up by the top TAPpers (who must be sliding down the table in any event).

Would that work (or have I jumped the gun and pre-empted the announcement)?

Some interesting ideas, thanks.

I think if no substantial change to the system it’d take a “new” fan who’d been to 36 games a season since 2021 about another decade to catch up with a 10k “old” fan who has a ST but never goes to away games. I’m not really sure it should take 15 years of near 100% home and away attendance to get the prize of a guaranteed Bournemouth ticket over someone who in that time will never go to watch us at the Vitality. In facf they’ll probably have built their new ground before then to render it moot.

I’ve seen on the Luton threads last season quite a lot of regular fans from pre-21 complaining that the match had a lot of younger fans who couldn’t possibly have themselves achieved the 6k or whatever that was needed. I wonder how they got their tickets.

 

[rebus]

A well run business tries to maximise its profits where it can and within reason, in all areas, no matter how big or small.

Very true but they aren’t doing as you suggest in terms of actively turfing season ticket holders out.

 

[Jay Bee]

BFC have just discounted junior tickets to £10 for away fans, and are subsidising our own away juniors to the same price.
Does that mean BFC are not a well run business? Perhaps the club does not actually feel obliged to "maximise its profits where it can, in all areas, no matter how big or small"?

That’s why I edited it and said “within reason “ .. there’s obviously extreme lengths one can go to where you then start to alienate fans (eg Ratcliffe at Utd).

When it comes to junior ticket pricing, from a business sense it is logical to charge less to youngsters to encourage them to become fans for life.
Maximising current and future revenue is still the driving force behind that initiative, rather than any philanthropic generosity.

Fine.
You or I could justify any "generous" move as being potentially a business move made for long term profitability, I suppose. Other examples would be season ticket price freezes, early bird discounts for renewals in the past, freebies for season ticket holders (it is creme egg season after all...)

My feeling is, football clubs are not obliged to maximise profits from every source, and chase the pennies as as well the pounds. The reason is that football is not a normal business and loyalty to a club works differently to loyalty to your supermarket / bank / widget manufacturer. People turn up even when the product is no good, they wear and advertise the club come rain or shine, and they expect some broad recognition of that in the good times. And with the PL TV money these are very good times.
Looping it back to @rebus s post 320 which you quoted at the start, I think pushing for small amounts of profit is not always in the club's interest, because of the way fans interpret changes and the way they view the club long term. The Man U approach is an extreme example of that.

I am actually a bit surprised by @AB 's indicaton that the club are happy to maintain a high level of season ticket holder renewals, because the 10,000 limit in the past and very strict rules about new season tickets gave the impression they were keen to sell as many matchday tickets as possible. If that's not the case then that's good news.

 

[AB]

I would argue (as @Jay Bee does specifically for Brentford) that for any well-run business, maximising profits should only occur within currently (and arguably future) acceptable ethical norms. It's a stretch but BFC may consider it has an ethical responsibility to ensure as many supporters as possible are able to buy a ST.

Not just STs! It would be extremely easy for the club to sell another 3000 STs to fans who regularly attend games and have none available to members other than off the Exchange. Future fans could then get in via the sort of patronage through knowing long standing fans that other clubs have. I’ve heard some in such clubs even manage to make a tidy living from holding a ST knowing that there’ll always be demand.

You are spot on in my view re the ethical responsibilities we want the club to believe it has (and which at least at a high level and helicopter view I think it genuinely does even if sometimes it is tempted towards bean counting).

Back in Brentford, one of the things longer standing fans rightly worry about is the club losing its identity and just chasing as much money as possible. It could do that by reducing the number of STs and putting their prices up. These are the sorts of thing BIAS has worked very hard to not allow to even enter the minds of those running things!

As per the debate on the Football Governance Bill, we ought to realise that football clubs are not purely economic profit-maximising undertakings and caring about the interests of fans who attend games is very important. Some of the benefits of this are somewhat intangible - nobody really knows how much the atmosphere generated by 14k really engaged fans contributes in points per season but it improves our experience as fans when it happens, it is highly appreciated by TF and the players and the PL itself openly argues that the unique atmosphere of PL games makes it a much more valuable global TV product (and hence earner for clubs!) than any other top level pro league.

 

[Banana]

@AB if c. 50% of STH aren't going away (and there hasn't - rightly so - been the Kurtie Bonus on ST for a number of years) then the newer Bees who want to (and can)fill their boots will be flying up on the rails and overtaking those who aren't going. Aren't they/couldn't they?

They are not overtaking them.

Also these "unused" STHers do suddenly become used for, er, Fulham when mates of mates need tickets....where someone that "is flying up on the rails" only to find themselves blocked by a mate of a mate who got his ticket from one of the Kurt Bonus TAP holders that doesn't do aways anymore.


On another note, no-one can be surprised that only a small %age of STHers do aways. There's 10,000 STHers and only 3,000 spaces in the largest of away ends. So, by definition, only a maximum of 30% of STHers can do aways. Much less when you've removed comps, youth, staff tickets out of the 3,000

 

[AB]

I am actually a bit surprised by @AB 's indicaton that the club are happy to maintain a high level of season ticket holder renewals, because the 10,000 limit in the past and very strict rules about new season tickets gave the impression they were keen to sell as many matchday tickets as possible. If that's not the case then that's good news.

I’m not sure I quite said that, or at least didn’t mean that inference! There is work (at an earlyish stage) on whether there should be a minimum usage threshold for STs. The limit on ST numbers to ensure there is good availability for members is v important but that doesn’t mean the actual number of STs has to be at that limit by ignoring ST usage and only issuing new STs to cover natural wastage (ie voluntary/unavoidable non-renewals).

 

[8corner]

They are not overtaking them.

Also these "unused" STHers do suddenly become used for, er, Fulham when mates of mates need tickets....where someone that "is flying up on the rails" only to find themselves blocked by a mate of a mate who got his ticket from one of the Kurt Bonus TAP holders that doesn't do aways anymore.


On another note, no-one can be surprised that only a small %age of STHers do aways. There's 10,000 STHers and only 3,000 spaces in the largest of away ends. So, by definition, only a maximum of 30% of STHers can do aways. Much less when you've removed comps, youth, staff tickets out of the 3,000

If 5,000 STH aren't going at all then 60% of the remainder can do aways (but I get your point).

My biggest annoyance is that this only seems to become an issue for one or two games a season when you suddenly have a clamouring of squeals "I can't get a ticket for Bournemouth" for example. There is never "I can't get a ticket for Wolves, Newcastle, Southampton or sadly even Liverpool or Man City"

 

[Banana]

My biggest annoyance is that this only seems to become an issue for one or two games a season when you suddenly have a clamouring of squeals "I can't get a ticket for Bournemouth" for example. There is never "I can't get a ticket for Wolves, Newcastle, Southampton or sadly even Liverpool or Man City"

There are plenty of requests from people that can't get tickets directly from the club. Anyway...

 

[Truth_hurts]

Back in Brentford, one of the things longer standing fans rightly worry about is the club losing its identity and just chasing as much money as possible. It could do that by reducing the number of STs and putting their prices up. These are the sorts of thing BIAS has worked very hard to not allow to even enter the minds of those running things!

But that would be a risky move, especially for a club like Brentford who could quite easily go back down again.
What season ticket sales allows a club to do is factor and take in projected future GUARANTEED earnings.

What if we suddenly have a crap season and lose all our games?
Will there be as much demand for tickets on a matchday basis?
Maybe. Maybe not.
Point is you’re not guaranteed that income, and that is why season tickets are an attractive revenue earner for any club.

 

[AB]

If 5,000 STH aren't going at all then 60% of the remainder can do aways (but I get your point).

My biggest annoyance is that this only seems to become an issue for one or two games a season when you suddenly have a clamouring of squeals "I can't get a ticket for Bournemouth" for example. There is never "I can't get a ticket for Wolves, Newcastle, Southampton or sadly even Liverpool or Man City"

When TAPs came in it was as a reaction to even more exceptional games, predominantly when we got drawn in a cup against teams two divisions higher. 11 years ago even with the excitement and demand for a first Championship away game in over 20 years the only requirement to get a ticket was buying a membership with a threshold of 0 TAPs at Bournemouth. Fans now need 5500 TAPs to be sure to go.

So, while it remains true that it’s mainly Bournemouth, Luton (unlikely ever to be an issue again as they’ll be in their new ground if and when we play them in the league again), and some London/SE PL games, that’s still a lot more than before. I think most of us would hope that we not only remain in the PL for another decade but that in doing so we grow our fanbase and move towards regularly challenging top 7 and having domestic and European cup runs. So the changes now can be seen as being proactive in anticipation of that future.

 

[wanderer paul]

Is it really the case that about half top TAPs ST holders haven't been home or away this season?

"Nearly half the STs in the top band have been to no away games this season. A similar proportion of members in the top band have not been to a single home game this season."

That's staggering if so. Why are they buying ST's?

I haven’t been to an away game for 3 seasons.

I have been to just 3 home games this season.

I have an ST.

I will continue to have an ST.

If my TAPs are halved, so be it…….. i’ll wait until we are relegated and start collecting TAPs again.

 

[AB]

But that would be a risky move, especially for a club like Brentford who could quite easily go back down again.
What season ticket sales allows a club to do is factor and take in projected future GUARANTEED earnings.

What if we suddenly have a crap season and lose all our games?
Will there be as much demand for tickets on a matchday basis?
Maybe. Maybe not.
Point is you’re not guaranteed that income, and that is why season tickets are an attractive revenue earner for any club.

That is true and a big factor for lower division clubs as we were until recently. As long as parachute payments remain the contribution made to club revenues by ticket sales is still small. If we went down but all STs renewed the revenue would amount to I think about 10% of club income. Currently it’s less than 5%. It’s not negligible and it’s better to have than not have. And if we stayed down for 4 seasons it’d be very important again. In those scenarios we may well need to add back incentives to renew/buy STs.

 

[Banana]

What if we suddenly have a crap season and lose all our games?

? is this the truth hurting again?

 

[PhilE]

What season ticket sales allows a club to do is factor and take in projected future GUARANTEED earnings.

Not entirely guaranteed as STs can be put on the exchange 7 days in advance for a guaranteed refund - but it is a fair point made.

 

[BEEcool]

Some interesting ideas, thanks.

I think if no substantial change to the system it’d take a “new” fan who’d been to 36 games a season since 2021 about another decade to catch up with a 10k “old” fan who has a ST but never goes to away games. I’m not really sure it should take 15 years of near 100% home and away attendance to get the prize of a guaranteed Bournemouth ticket over someone who in that time will never go to watch us at the Vitality. In facf they’ll probably have built their new ground before then to render it moot.

I’ve seen on the Luton threads last season quite a lot of regular fans from pre-21 complaining that the match had a lot of younger fans who couldn’t possibly have themselves achieved the 6k or whatever that was needed. I wonder how they got their tickets.

Sounds perfect to me

 

[Deanos196]

I think that could make it an even more closed shop. My mate is a L**ds fan ? and he hates when the club do these incentives, as it means those purchasing just sell them on for the games they can't go to, or give them to a mate. Ultimately meaning when their big games come along, let's say a Play-off final, they're guaranteed a ticket even if they've not actually been to that many away games.

Sorry let me clarify the away season ticket would work as in all STH that wernt interested wouldn’t be included in any tranches or any correspondence from the club if you wernt interested.

the situation you outline happens at every club including ours and will continue to whilst “points” give people priority to purchase and ID is not cross referenced to the people actually attending.

 

[nick logan]

No ST holder has 9-10 k taps unless they go practically every game away as well

 

[daddybee]

Some interesting ideas, thanks.

I think if no substantial change to the system it’d take a “new” fan who’d been to 36 games a season since 2021 about another decade to catch up with a 10k “old” fan who has a ST but never goes to away games. I’m not really sure it should take 15 years of near 100% home and away attendance to get the prize of a guaranteed Bournemouth ticket over someone who in that time will never go to watch us at the Vitality. In facf they’ll probably have built their new ground before then to render it moot.

I’ve seen on the Luton threads last season quite a lot of regular fans from pre-21 complaining that the match had a lot of younger fans who couldn’t possibly have themselves achieved the 6k or whatever that was needed. I wonder how they got their tickets.

Yeah, cos there are so many 10k older fans!

 

[braunton bee]

Over 130 years of support between me and my dad ,going all over the country ,counts for nothing because a new fan can’t get tickets to all the big games .Why didn’t this come out in the championship ,because the new fans didn’t want to watch the likes of Huddersfield