James Tarkowski -

[Billy Hunt]

Sitters missed - 0

Any credibility you had has now gone.
I'm a big fan of Andre and he is the same as any other footballer - he sometimes makes mistakes, sometimes misses a sitter. I never got it into my head, like many Brentford fans, that he missed 'loads' of easy chances, but he is only human.

Pretty sure they have shown a few misses on the telly.

 

[buzzybees]

Quick question, have you ever kissed a girl?

Yeah he did in Thailand

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Keane has played at a higher level and played with England since his 16's. Has played more football than JT and more games in this division.
As for gray he is our best striker only coz ings left though and top dollar? Il call it a bargain getting the leagues highest scored for 6m.

Michael Keane has about 70 Championship appearances, James Tarkowski about 60. Is is those missing 10 games that makes Keane twice as good then? As for youth football, you're right Tarks doesn't have those valuable international appearances, he was busy playing league football which is why he's got 60 or so more league appearances. Sounds to me like you don't really rate Tarkowski much? My advice to you is that you go for Liam Moore - he's played loads of international football.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Michael Keane has about 70 Championship appearances, James Tarkowski about 60. Is is those missing 10 games that makes Keane twice as good then? As for youth football, you're right Tarks doesn't have them, he was busy playing league football which is why he's got 60 or so more league appearances. Sounds to me like you don't really rate Tarkowski much?

Liam Moore was capped many times for England U21s and he's rubbish. :shrug:

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Liam Moore was capped many times for England U21s and he's rubbish. :shrug:

Just added that.

 

[Burnley]

Any credibility you had has now gone.
I'm a big fan of Andre and he is the same as any other footballer - he sometimes makes mistakes, sometimes misses a sitter. I never got it into my head, like many Brentford fans, that he missed 'loads' of easy chances, but he is only human.

Pretty sure they have shown a few misses on the telly.

I was being sarcastic why ask the question in the first place of course he misses chances but what I like about him and dyche keeps mentioning it is that he wouldn't hide away and will keep going till he gets it right no matter how many chances he misses that trust dyche gives him is Invaluable.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Liam Moore was capped many times for England U21s and he's rubbish. :shrug:

Was it Tyrone Mings that went for 8M?

 

[Burnley]

Just added that.

He's a buffoon that lad needs to cut down on the pies one says.

 

[Gee Bee]

Was it Tyrone Mings that went for 8M?

Yes to Bournemouth injured for season

 

[BerksBee]

I was being sarcastic why ask the question in the first place of course he misses chances but what I like about him and dyche keeps mentioning it is that he wouldn't hide away and will keep going till he gets it right no matter how many chances he misses that trust dyche gives him is Invaluable.

Gray has many great attributes, he's strong, quick, great positional sense and runs well into space and positions off the ball. His biggest problem is his finishing, he wants to much time or too many touches and that's why he misses so many.

I read a stat a while ago that showed Gray missed more chances than any other striker in the Championship last season, by some margin. I still think that's one of the reasons we let him go for that amount of money - we can replace him with better for cheaper.

It remains to be seen whether he can improve that aspect of his game and become a more complete striker. We haven't missed him though, our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray has this season and Judge is only just behind him on goal tally as an attacking midfielder!

Selling him was good business for us.

 

[Copper Dragon]

Interesting you think Burnley would be more inclined to match our valuation if you lost Keane based simply on the urgency of finding a replacement. Yet, with Keane still there, you seem adamant Burnley will not pay our valuation? I think that says a lot about how Burnley view the valuation of players. If it suits them they'll pay it, if doesn't, they want them cheap. Unfortunately (for Burnley) I think the Brentford management view the valuation of assets slightly differently.

It's also curious how Burnley value Keane at £6m but don't think Tarkowski's worth £5m, even though he's being acquired as a replacement for Keane.

We want a centre back. If Keane went we'd need two centre backs and that would mean more of an urgency to get one in, so we'd be forced to pay higher for Tarkowski if no one else were available in the short space of time.

Tarkowski isn't being lined up as a replacement for Keane.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Gray has many great attributes, he's strong, quick, great positional sense and runs well into space and positions off the ball. His biggest problem is his finishing, he wants to much time or too many touches and that's why he misses so many.

I read a stat a while ago that showed Gray missed more chances than any other striker in the Championship last season, by some margin. I still think that's one of the reasons we let him go for that amount of money - we can replace him with better for cheaper.

It remains to be seen whether he can improve that aspect of his game and become a more complete striker. We haven't missed him though, our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray has this season and Judge is only just behind him on goal tally as an attacking midfielder!

Selling him was good business for us.

I am yet to see the better cheaper option.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Sitters missed - 0

Hull away at only 1-0 down?

 

[mhead bee]

I was being sarcastic why ask the question in the first place of course he misses chances but what I like about him and dyche keeps mentioning it is that he wouldn't hide away and will keep going till he gets it right no matter how many chances he misses that trust dyche gives him is Invaluable.

He had the same here, but we didn't have another forward and Warburton wouldn't bring one in unless it upset squad harmony.

Gray used to get an incredible amount of stick from our fans, it was mainly the attitude, if he didn't get the ball he would stick his bottom lip out and drop his head and shoulders and walk slowly back to the half way line dragging his heels. He also didn't like chasing things down or closing defenders. Both our replacements djurcin and Vibe both haven't got the pace or the raw talent of Gray but they put more of a shift into one game than Gray did in 10. I think we saw 9m of whatever it was as a great deal for a player who scored 18 goals and we had to take the money. He will score more this season and I am sure you will find it money well spent but \i do not miss his attitude at all.

 

[BerksBee]

I am yet to see the better cheaper option.

That's because it's our policy to acquire talented players with potential to improve and grow into the roles we want them to play for reasonable amounts of money. Sometimes it takes time to realise and unlock that potential.

Personally I think any one of Vibe, Djuricin and Hofmann can become regular goal scorers for us given the right kind of service from midfield.

 

[Freebee]

I can understand Fulscum or ra ra's coming onto our forum to wind us up if their after one of our players bcos they are historic rivals and we hate each other but Burnley?

If you came here to get up to date info on this potential transfer' you could do that by just reading.
You mean nothing to us and visa versa so what do you get out of it?

 

[shaun]

Gray has many great attributes, he's strong, quick, great positional sense and runs well into space and positions off the ball. His biggest problem is his finishing, he wants to much time or too many touches and that's why he misses so many.

I read a stat a while ago that showed Gray missed more chances than any other striker in the Championship last season, by some margin. I still think that's one of the reasons we let him go for that amount of money - we can replace him with better for cheaper.

It remains to be seen whether he can improve that aspect of his game and become a more complete striker. We haven't missed him though, our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray has this season and Judge is only just behind him on goal tally as an attacking midfielder!

Selling him was good business for us.

It might have been good business but we have missed him.

 

[mhead bee]

I am yet to see the better cheaper option.

Djurcin 4, vibe 7, Hoff 4

That is 15 goals in half a season for a fraction of what we sold Gray for.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

That's because it's our policy to acquire talented players with potential to improve and grow into the roles we want them to play for reasonable amounts of money. Sometimes it takes time to realise and unlock that potential.

Personally I think any one of Vibe, Djuricin and Hofmann can become regular goal scorers for us given the right kind of service from midfield.

Don't think any of the above will turn out to be as good as Gray, can't see a profit in Vibe or Hoff, Djuricin the most likely although he is not our player at present,
but he does not have that burst of pace that scares defenders.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Djurcin 4, vibe 7, Hoff 4

That is 15 goals in half a season for a fraction of what we sold Gray for.

Gray has almost that total on his own, and we won't sell Vibe or Hoff for big money IMO, in fact at the moment I think we would struggle to get
our money back.

 

[mhead bee]

Gray has almost that total on his own, and we won't sell Vibe or Hoff for big money IMO, in fact at the moment I think we would struggle to get
our money back.

You said you are yet to see a better cheaper option, I pointed out we have replaced one with three at a fraction of the cost and are getting more goals out of it then we did out of gray last season, surely good business no?

 

[Bixer]

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Tarkowski would like to move back to the NW to be nearer his family. A move to Burnley would provide that for him.

I wouldn't be unhappy to see him go as long as we got our valuation for him.

I'm not denying he's against the move, but more 'desperate' to leave us than they are to sign him was what my question was aimed at.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

You said you are yet to see a better cheaper option, I pointed out we have replaced one with three at a fraction of the cost and are getting more goals out of it then we did out of gray last season, surely good business no?

Yes if you could play all three at the same time, but I don't think the FA would let us put a 13 man team out, by the way didn't you think KK was the dogs doodah's?

 

[Burnley]

Gray has many great attributes, he's strong, quick, great positional sense and runs well into space and positions off the ball. His biggest problem is his finishing, he wants to much time or too many touches and that's why he misses so many.

I read a stat a while ago that showed Gray missed more chances than any other striker in the Championship last season, by some margin. I still think that's one of the reasons we let him go for that amount of money - we can replace him with better for cheaper.

It remains to be seen whether he can improve that aspect of his game and become a more complete striker. We haven't missed him though, our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray has this season and Judge is only just behind him on goal tally as an attacking midfielder!

Selling him was good business for us.

I will call him pretty clinical SO FAR yes he has missed chances but not as many as your making out unless he has improved with us. We tend to score with most of our shots because were not a team that creates many chances so when a chance comes its finished. Were more of a soak it up defensive side that will carve out 2 or 3 chances a game with 1 being a half chance.

 

[mhead bee]

Yes if you could play all three at the same time, but I don't think the FA would let us put a 13 man team out.

We don't need to, neither of them has played in the same side together yet but have still managed to score more between than Gray did for us for a fraction of the cost,

 

[Tunis Bee]

It remains to be seen whether he can improve that aspect of his game and become a more complete striker. We haven't missed him though, our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray has this season and Judge is only just behind him on goal tally as an attacking midfielder!

Selling him was good business for us.

I heard Phil Giles also mention that our three strikers have all scored more between them than Gray had for us this time last season. I'm not sure if his point, and yours, reflect the true impact as we have had more than one striker on the pitch at times this season.

Looking at Squawka, this season Gray has scored 1 every 118 minutes on average. Our strikers average 1 every 207 minutes on average (the best is Hofmann with 1 every 148 minutes).

Regarding Giles's comment, it is a bit disingenuous as the Gray from the start of this season was vastly improved from the Gray at the start of last season, so not really comparing like for like. I would hazard a guess that Gray would be on a roughly similar total if he stayed with us this season as oppose to leave for Burnley.

I personally feel selling him wasn't the best business for us but at the end of the day it isn't my money, so not my call.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

We don't need to, neither of them has played in the same side together yet but have still managed to score more between than Gray did for us for a fraction of the cost,

Lets see if we get £9Million for any or all of them and judge it on that, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BerksBee]

It might have been good business but we have missed him.

I'm not sure I agree.

The last time I looked, we'd scored 4 goals less this season than last season at the same stage. We're still one of the leading goal scorers in the league.

What are you saying then, if we'd kept Gray we'd have scored even more?

Our three main strikers have scored 15 goals between them (Vibe 7, Hofmann 4, Djuricin 4), Gray has scored 13, (1 for us) and at least 3 of those goals were penalties. Taking away the penalties, Gray's scored 10 goals in open play, Vibe's scored 7 and he's neither our first choice striker nor played as many games as Gray has! Additionally, we play one striker up front in 4 2 3 1 and Burnley generally play two up front in 4 4 2, so Gray even has the benefit of playing alongside another striker!

Sorry, the figures do not say to me that Gray has been missed by us.

 

[Billy Hunt]

I would hazard a guess that Gray would be on a roughly similar total if he stayed with us this season as oppose to leave for Burnley.

I think Andre would have scored more goals than he has, if he'd stayed with Brentford.

 

[TW3Bee]

I can understand Fulscum or ra ra's coming onto our forum to wind us up if their after one of our players bcos they are historic rivals and we hate each other but Burnley?

If you came here to get up to date info on this potential transfer' you could do that by just reading.
You mean nothing to us and visa versa so what do you get out of it?

Best to not keep feeding them.

Ignore them and they'll go away.

 

[Burnley]

I'm not sure I agree.

The last time I looked, we'd scored 4 goals less this season than last season at the same stage. We're still one of the leading goal scorers in the league.

What are you saying then, if we'd kept Gray we'd have scored even more?

Our three main strikers have scored 15 goals between them (Vibe 7, Hofmann 4, Djuricin 4), Gray has scored 13, (1 for us) and at least 3 of those goals were penalties. Taking away the penalties, Gray's scored 10 goals in open play, Vibe's scored 7 and he's neither our first choice striker nor played as many games as Gray has! Additionally, we play one striker up front in 4 2 3 1 and Burnley generally play two up front in 4 4 2, so Gray even has the benefit of playing alongside another striker!

Sorry, the figures do not say to me that Gray has been missed by us.

Gray has scored 15 and 442 or 4231 we play hoofball and are very defensive unlike your fast flowing attacking stuff.

 

[Bridge Bee]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[BerksBee]

I'm not sure if his point, and yours, reflect the true impact as we have had more than one striker on the pitch at times this season.

Well that's a moot point. We only play one striker up front, in a 4 2 3 1 formation, we don't play 4 4 2. If Vibe was on as well as say Djuricin or Hofmann then he was playing wide as a winger, not as a striker. Vibe can play in both those positions. Just like Swift and Canos play wide, they also chip in with goals.

So, I don't agree with this point. We don't play two strikers up front.

Looking at Squawka, this season Gray has scored 1 every 118 minutes on average. Our strikers average 1 every 207 minutes on average (the best is Hofmann with 1 every 148 minutes).

Gray's Burnley's penalty taker, you'd expect him to be scoring at a faster rate than goals only scored from open play. This is the problem with statistics - they're open to interpretation.

Regarding Giles's comment, it is a bit disingenuous as the Gray from the start of this season was vastly improved from the Gray at the start of last season, so not really comparing like for like.

Was he? Based on what? What are you measuring this by, or is it merely an assumption on your part?

And what exactly are you comparing here? The total goals Gray's scored this season compared to the total of goals scored by our three strikers? If so, what relevance is it what he did last season?

And if you're talking about this season, and he's much improved as you suggest, how come he's still scored less than our three strikers combined? We only play one of our strikers at a time.

I would hazard a guess that Gray would be on a roughly similar total if he stayed with us this season as oppose to leave for Burnley.

Pure conjecture on your behalf which can't be proved one way or the other.

The fact remains, that without Gray, we're one of the top scoring teams in the division and our three replacement strikers have scored more between them than Gray has, even with his penalties.

 

[shaun]

I'm not sure I agree.

The last time I looked, we'd scored 4 goals less this season than last season at the same stage. We're still one of the leading goal scorers in the league.

What are you saying then, if we'd kept Gray we'd have scored even more?

Our three main strikers have scored 15 goals between them (Vibe 7, Hofmann 4, Djuricin 4), Gray has scored 13, (1 for us) and at least 3 of those goals were penalties. Taking away the penalties, Gray's scored 10 goals in open play, Vibe's scored 7 and he's neither our first choice striker nor played as many games as Gray has! Additionally, we play one striker up front in 4 2 3 1 and Burnley generally play two up front in 4 4 2, so Gray even has the benefit of playing alongside another striker!

Sorry, the figures do not say to me that Gray has been missed by us.

Gray is a far better striker than any of those three (which is why he went for a lot of money). He has scored more goals than any of them and I sure will continue to do so.

 

[BerksBee]

Gray has scored 15...

All the sites quote 13 league goals. That's what I'm interested in.

 

[Burnley]

Well that's a moot point. We only play one striker up front, in a 4 2 3 1 formation, we don't play 4 4 2. If Vibe was on as well as say Djuricin or Hofmann then he was playing wide as a winger, not as a striker. Vibe can play in both those positions. Just like Swift and Canos play wide, they also chip in with goals.

So, I don't agree with this point. We don't play two strikers up front.



Gray's Burnley's penalty taker, you'd expect him to be scoring at a faster rate than goals only scored from open play. This is the problem with statistics - they're open to interpretation.


Was he? Based on what? What are you measuring this by, or is it merely an assumption on your part?

And what exactly are you comparing here? The total goals Gray's scored this season compared to the total of goals scored by our three strikers? If so, what relevance is it what he did last season?

And if you're talking about this season, and he's much improved as you suggest, how come he's still scored less than our three strikers combined? We only play one of our strikers at a time.


Pure conjecture on your behalf which can't be proved one way or the other.

The fact remains, that without Gray, we're one of the top scoring teams in the division and our three replacement strikers have scored more between them than Gray has, even with his penalties.

So it takes 3 strikers to match gray looool.

 

[Burnley]

All the sites quote 13 league goals. That's what I'm interested in.

Well sir you are wrong

 

[shaun]

I'm not sure I agree.

The last time I looked, we'd scored 4 goals less this season than last season at the same stage. We're still one of the leading goal scorers in the league.

What are you saying then, if we'd kept Gray we'd have scored even more?

Our three main strikers have scored 15 goals between them (Vibe 7, Hofmann 4, Djuricin 4), Gray has scored 13, (1 for us) and at least 3 of those goals were penalties. Taking away the penalties, Gray's scored 10 goals in open play, Vibe's scored 7 and he's neither our first choice striker nor played as many games as Gray has! Additionally, we play one striker up front in 4 2 3 1 and Burnley generally play two up front in 4 4 2, so Gray even has the benefit of playing alongside another striker!

Sorry, the figures do not say to me that Gray has been missed by us.

Wonder why Vibe hasn't been first choice striker. Gray has scored nearly as many goals as all three of them. Presumably he takes the pens as they think he will score....

 

[BerksBee]

He has scored more goals than any of them and I sure will continue to do so.

That's because he plays up front as a striker pretty much every game. We have 3 strikers for one striker role - only one of them can play at any one time. Our three strikers combined have scored 15 goals, Gray has scored 13 with 3 penalties.

 

[Burnley]

And further up someone suggesting judge is 1 goal behind gray what are you people on?

 

[Bigruss]

Isn't this the James Tarkowski thread??

 

[BerksBee]

So it takes 3 strikers to match gray looool.

No we bought 2 and brought one in on loan for far less money than we got for Gray. And between them they've scored more goals.

It's good business.

Hurry up and sell him on so we can get the rest of our money in sell on fees, thanks.

 

[BerksBee]

Isn't this the James Tarkowski thread??

Yes apologies, we went off at a bit of a tangent.

 

[hairman]

And further up someone suggesting judge is 1 goal behind gray what are you people on?

I know what you're on - our forum. Why don't you do one?

 

[shaun]

That's because he plays up front as a striker pretty much every game. We have 3 strikers for one striker role - only one of them can play at any one time. Our three strikers combined have scored 15 goals, Gray has scored 13 with 3 penalties.

He plays up front every week because presumably SD thinks he is a threat and will score...,.

Anyway - as pointed out, it's the Tarks thread so no more from me!

 

[Copper Dragon]

Isn't this the James Tarkowski thread??

It's been a willy waving thread, an Andre Gray thread, a car comparison thread and a thread about Barnsley.

What are you having for your tea?

 

[nick logan]

It's been a willy waving thread, an Andre Gray thread, a car comparison thread and a thread about Barnsley.

What are you having for your tea?

Chinese ! Cor !

What about you CD ?

 

[Copper Dragon]

Chinese ! Cor !

What about you CD ?

Roast chicken, bread sauce, stuffing, roast potatoes, carrots, cauliflower, savoy cabbage, peas and gravy.

 

[Tunis Bee]

Well that's a moot point. We only play one striker up front, in a 4 2 3 1 formation, we don't play 4 4 2. If Vibe was on as well as say Djuricin or Hofmann then he was playing wide as a winger, not as a striker. Vibe can play in both those positions. Just like Swift and Canos play wide, they also chip in with goals.

So, I don't agree with this point. We don't play two strikers up front.

Fair point, but then we cannot include goals scored by Vibe when he has been playing on the wing and not as a "striker".

Gray's Burnley's penalty taker, you'd expect him to be scoring at a faster rate than goals only scored from open play. This is the problem with statistics - they're open to interpretation.

That's 2 goals.

And what exactly are you comparing here? The total goals Gray's scored this season compared to the total of goals scored by our three strikers? If so, what relevance is it what he did last season?

That is my point - Phil Giles comment about Gray last season has no relevance.

And if you're talking about this season, and he's much improved as you suggest, how come he's still scored less than our three strikers combined? We only play one of our strikers at a time.

Ermm..he hasn't?

Pure conjecture on your behalf which can't be proved one way or the other.

The fact remains, that without Gray, we're one of the top scoring teams in the division and our three replacement strikers have scored more between them than Gray has, even with his penalties.

You can keep saying that they have scored more than Gray between them, but it still won't be actually correct. Gray has scored 15. Vibe, Djuricin, Hoffman combined have scored 15 (7+4+4=15).

 

[Billy Hunt]

Chinese ! Cor !

Nice. Had a Chinese, last night. :tongue:

Roast chicken, bread sauce, stuffing, roast potatoes, carrots, cauliflower, savoy cabbage, peas and gravy.

On a Monday? Sounds lovely.

Just Spag. Bol. for me and the little Hunts.