Mark Warburton

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Mark Warburton

You're statistical analysis misses the point on this occasion. Of course a defensive styled side is going to be effected by goals conceded more than goals scored, or any team in fact. You concede another goal in a game that you are winning 2-1 it's a draw, you score another it's 3-1. Statistics cloud the issue in this respect, I don't think a defensive style of play has a better impact at all. Look at Barcelona, Manchester United, Arsenal (10 years ago), Real Madrid (not under Mourinho) and Bayern. The most successful sides in recent years have been positive attacking sides, there are only a few anomalies. Also the failure of Italian sides and their style of play in the CL is something to note. Of course you need a solid defence, but been extra cautious doesn't help your chances IMO, if anything I would say it hinders them. How many leads did we blow under MA trying to hold out instead of killing the game off? I would also say it cost Mancini his job last season.

Great reply and thanks for answering my post. All I can say is in the The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football is Wrong by Anderson and Sally that is what they found after extensive research. There are quite a few quants working on football stats that blog frequently. If you like shall I post their twitter accounts up so people can follow all this. Have to say the anorak in me loves all this.

At present apart from general quants stuff interested in changing strategy at top clubs. This I find fascinating.

I think a high tempo pressing style high up the pitch like Dortmund is the way forward. Regain the ball as near to the opponents goal as you can, get the ball into the box, preferably on the ground and take a shot. Guess bit like us at present!
 

Mark Warburton

Great reply and thanks for answering my post. All I can say is in the The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football is Wrong by Anderson and Sally that is what they found after extensive research. There are quite a few quants working on football stats that blog frequently. If you like shall I post their twitter accounts up so people can follow all this. Have to say the anorak in me loves all this.

At present apart from general quants stuff interested in changing strategy at top clubs. This I find fascinating.

I think a high tempo pressing style high up the pitch like Dortmund is the way forward. Regain the ball as near to the opponents goal as you can, get the ball into the box, preferably on the ground and take a shot. Guess bit like us at present!

Yes please with regards to the Twitter links and I will check out the book, I assume there is a kindle version. Cheers.

I agree with the Dortmund analogy, and I think that is very similar to Warburton's style. The first 30 minutes versus MK Dons was exactly the style you describe above and it worked very well. I think statistics in football is very important, but I do think they can side track you from the truth which is what I think has happened on this occasion. An attacking side is more likely to be successful IMO, but I have no evidence for that other than the successful teams of recent history. Just look at Warburton's wins versus the ones we were picking up under Rosler, much more confident and convincing. This is the same team, same formation, however much more positive.
 

Mark Warburton

Yes please with regards to the Twitter links and I will check out the book, I assume there is a kindle version. Cheers.

I agree with the Dortmund analogy, and I think that is very similar to Warburton's style. The first 30 minutes versus MK Dons was exactly the style you describe above and it worked very well. I think statistics in football is very important, but I do think they can side track you from the truth which is what I think has happened on this occasion. An attacking side is more likely to be successful IMO, but I have no evidence for that other than the successful teams of recent history. Just look at Warburton's wins versus the ones we were picking up under Rosler, much more confident and convincing. This is the same team, same formation, however much more positive.


Links start with socceranalysts. If you see who he follows you will quickly get into the field. Be warned addictive.and simon gleave is also very good.
 

Mark Warburton

Great reply and thanks for answering my post. All I can say is in the The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football is Wrong by Anderson and Sally that is what they found after extensive research. There are quite a few quants working on football stats that blog frequently. If you like shall I post their twitter accounts up so people can follow all this. Have to say the anorak in me loves all this.

At present apart from general quants stuff interested in changing strategy at top clubs. This I find fascinating.
I tend to agree with your take on Stats and the benefits of defensive football etc. Then again, MW (and MB) know a bit about Statistical analysis in Football(!) and if Bees are adopting a more attacking strategy under MW than UR, I'm not going to argue with him.

I think a high tempo pressing style high up the pitch like Dortmund is the way forward. Regain the ball as near to the opponents goal as you can, get the ball into the box, preferably on the ground and take a shot. Guess bit like us at present!
Have to disagree, on two counts.

First of all, BFC don't play particularly high up the pitch like Dortmund. Bees' midfielders and forwards may press their opponents close when they (Bees) lose the ball, but the defensive trio of JD, Harlee and TC don't push up to constrict play in the middle third of the pitch. On the contrary, they're happy to drop back as far as the penalty area, with JD responsible for 'shielding' them up until then. Which is why BFC concede relatively few offsides, and when they do, they are relatively deep in their own half, rather than up by the half way line.

And the second is related to that. Personally, I don't feel any particular system is inherently "better" than the others (although a team adopting a new style may steal a march on the rest for a period eg Ramsey's 'Wingless Wonders"). For me, the key is adopting a style which best suits the players available (as eg Ramsey did, in the absence of top quality wingers).

Quite frankly, if you look at JD and Harlee, even arguably TC, none of them has the pace (esp) or the technique to take the ball forward to the opposition, for that risks their getting turned high up the field when possession is lost. In that sense, they are more comfortable defending on the 'back foot' than the 'front foot' (to borrow a cricketing term).

Which is also why BFC depend on building attacks by a combination of (a )McCormick and Bidwell bombing forward; (b ) JD/TC/HD giving the ball to Adam and George etc to build from around the centre circle; (c ) Button kicking long for Clayton; or (d ) defenders [Harlee esp] hitting long diagonal balls forward for front players.

And since under MW (and previously UR) the club seems to spend more time than most on assessing new players before signing them, so that they will fit into the preferred system, I think that a key reason for recent success.
 
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Mark Warburton

I tend to agree with your take on Stats and the benefits of defensive football etc. Then again, MW (and MB) know a bit about Statistical analysis in Football(!) and if Bees are adopting a more attacking strategy under MW than UR, I'm not going to argue with him.

Have to disagree, on two counts.

First of all, BFC don't play particularly high up the pitch like Dortmund. Bees' midfielders and forwards may press their opponents close when they (Bees) lose the ball, but the defensive trio of JD, Harlee and TC don't push up to constrict play in the middle third of the pitch. On the contrary, they're happy to drop back as far as the penalty area, with JD responsible for 'shielding' them up until then. Which is why BFC concede relatively few offsides, and when they are, they are relatively deep in their own half, rather than up by the half way line.

And the second is related to that. Personally, I don't feel any particular system is inherently "better" than the others (although a team adopting a new style may steal a march on the rest for a period eg Ramsey's 'Wingless Wonders"). For me, the key is adopting a style which best suits the players available (as eg Ramsey did, in the absence of top quality wingers).

Quite frankly, if you look at JD and Harlee, even arguably TC, none of them has the pace (esp) or the technique to take the ball forward to the opposition and risk losing possession, and/or getting caught on the break. In that sense, they are more comfortable defending on the 'back foot' than the 'front foot' (to borrow a cricketing term).

Which is why BFC depend on building attacks by a combination of (a )McCormick and Bidwell bombing forward; (b ) JD/TC/HD giving the ball to Adam and George etc to build from around the centre circle; (c ) Button kicking long for Clayton; or (d ) defenders [Harlee esp] hitting long diagonal balls forward for front players.

And since under MW (and previously UR) the club seems to spend more time than most on assessing new players before signing them, I think that a key reason for recent success.

A most thoughtful analysis. And what ever warburton is doing it is working. The club is so much more professional and analytic now this should pay dividends in the future. Warburton and his team have my fullest support. As I am sure they do from the vast majority of supporters.
 

Mark Warburton

In the quiet?
I think you're confusing me with NorthamptonBee, Voice of Braemer, or any of the other doddery Bees pensioners.
I'm part of that horrible "singing lot" - you know, the ones who on match day actually support and gee-up the players.

So no doubt you were with us old codgers at Peterborough singing away..........or perhaps not

Go away now and stop being bloody miserable, some of us want to enjoy our success!!!!!
 

Mark Warburton

5 wins on the bounce, has any Bees manager done that in his first 5 games? Incredible. Letting the lads play with a little freedom.
 

Mark Warburton

5 wins on the bounce, has any Bees manager done that in his first 5 games? Incredible. Letting the lads play with a little freedom.

I won so many on Championship manager 99/00 I lost count..
 

Mark Warburton

If Chuba Chup is better than what we already have he must be absolutely mustard.

Can't wait for Port Vale.
 

Mark Warburton

Mark Warburton is really cutting the mustard; let's not forget Dave Wier's influence, after all, that first win before he arrived was arguably a little fortuitous against Oldham.
 

Mark Warburton

Mark Warburton is really cutting the mustard; let's not forget Dave Wier's influence, after all, that first win before he arroved was arguably a little fortuitous against Oldham.

TC gave Weir a lot of credit in post match interview. "With the career he's had, you listen to him".
 

Mark Warburton

Mark Warburton is really cutting the mustard; let's not forget Dave Wier's influence, after all, that first win before he arrived was arguably a little fortuitous against Oldham.
not sure I agree with you on this.
 

Mark Warburton

I tend to agree with your take on Stats and the benefits of defensive football etc. Then again, MW (and MB) know a bit about Statistical analysis in Football(!) and if Bees are adopting a more attacking strategy under MW than UR, I'm not going to argue with him.

Have to disagree, on two counts.

First of all, BFC don't play particularly high up the pitch like Dortmund. Bees' midfielders and forwards may press their opponents close when they (Bees) lose the ball, but the defensive trio of JD, Harlee and TC don't push up to constrict play in the middle third of the pitch. On the contrary, they're happy to drop back as far as the penalty area, with JD responsible for 'shielding' them up until then. Which is why BFC concede relatively few offsides, and when they do, they are relatively deep in their own half, rather than up by the half way line.

And the second is related to that. Personally, I don't feel any particular system is inherently "better" than the others (although a team adopting a new style may steal a march on the rest for a period eg Ramsey's 'Wingless Wonders"). For me, the key is adopting a style which best suits the players available (as eg Ramsey did, in the absence of top quality wingers).

Quite frankly, if you look at JD and Harlee, even arguably TC, none of them has the pace (esp) or the technique to take the ball forward to the opposition, for that risks their getting turned high up the field when possession is lost. In that sense, they are more comfortable defending on the 'back foot' than the 'front foot' (to borrow a cricketing term).

Which is also why BFC depend on building attacks by a combination of (a )McCormick and Bidwell bombing forward; (b ) JD/TC/HD giving the ball to Adam and George etc to build from around the centre circle; (c ) Button kicking long for Clayton; or (d ) defenders [Harlee esp] hitting long diagonal balls forward for front players.

And since under MW (and previously UR) the club seems to spend more time than most on assessing new players before signing them, so that they will fit into the preferred system, I think that a key reason for recent success.

I have done some research on pressing. Dead interesting. I gather the latest thinking is genenpressing as this incorporates defensive strength with high pressing. Also shadow pressing is becoming important where only a couple of players actually lunge in when pressing while others sort of get the opponents to play the ball backwards to slow transition from defence to attack. Also reduction in tika taki style, more speed and direct. I think in our own way Rosler had change from lots of passing away from opponents goal to more direct approach. To me button to full back then punt down wing is now more common. At the start of the season transition from defence to attack was slower. Now faster transitions are emerging.
 

Mark Warburton

I think in our own way Rosler had change from lots of passing away from opponents goal to more direct approach. To me button to full back then punt down wing is now more common. At the start of the season transition from defence to attack was slower. Now faster transitions are emerging.
You may well be right.

Of course, it takes players time (esp younger players) to adopt and perfect a new playing style, which could part-explain the so-so start to the season, followed by a marked improvement.

Then again, that would acknowledge the need for patience when building success, as well as crediting UR, which I guess is dangerous in an era of Instant Gratification...
 

Mark Warburton

It's just hit me. He looks like Minty from Eastenders.

Don't think I'll be able to look at him the same way again lol
 

Mark Warburton

It's just hit me. He looks like Minty from Eastenders.

Don't think I'll be able to look at him the same way again lol

Nothing like him, for a start he isn't fat.
 

Mark Warburton

Have they announced the Manager of the Month for December yet?

Do they include Cup games when they are making their decision?
 

Mark Warburton

All games. But we''re a dead cert to win, for the second month running :yes:
 

Mark Warburton

Mark Warburton

Kernaghan

So if it only takes account of league games is there anyone else with a record of played 5 won 5 in December other than Whiskey Nose Junior who may be in line for the "Virtual Manager of the Month" award for his teams outstanding performances on the Football Manager games platform?
 

Mark Warburton

So if it only takes account of league games is there anyone else with a record of played 5 won 5 in December other than Whiskey Nose Junior who may be in line for the "Virtual Manager of the Month" award for his teams outstanding performances on the Football Manager games platform?

Does Peterborough count as December or January?
 

Mark Warburton

As far as I know, 1st January is in January.

Unless Peterborough is in a different world time zone! Certainly Ferguson's views on the match are in a totally different world, possibly planet!
 

Mark Warburton

So it's 4 out of 4 not 5 as Kevaluton stated
 

Mark Warburton

Nominated, as we all knew! For League 1 manager of the month. :sorted:
 

Mark Warburton

Named manager of the month! No surprise there,long may it continue!! :-D
 

Mark Warburton

When was the last time a club has received this award in consecutive months with 2 different managers, if ever?!

Congratulations though Mark..
 

Mark Warburton

100% record.

Fully deserved.
 

Mark Warburton

Plus Sam got player of the month. Good news and fully deserved by both.
 

Mark Warburton

Well done to Mark, whoever chooses the winner and Matthew Benham for the appointment.
 

Mark Warburton

I'll hold my hands up and say I was one of the people who was very negative when MW was appointed, I'm glad to say I was completely wrong. Well done Mark, long may the run continue!
 

Mark Warburton

When was the last time a club won two successive manager of the months but with different managers....???
 

Mark Warburton

When was the last time a club has received this award in consecutive months with 2 different managers, if ever?!

Congratulations though Mark..
Yes. I imagine that has never been achieved before.
And I doubt if too many Managers have won it in their very first month of managing any first team at football league level.
With Sam also getting his award, plus some very welcome news of loan extensions and new loan signings, it has been a wonderful week off the pitch.
Let us hope Mark, Sam and the team can cap this with a great win tomorrow! :)
 

Mark Warburton

Was never in any doubt. Just goes to show what an excellent manager the breadman is. Hopefully the people who claimed to be underwhelmed by this appointment give mark the credit and backing he now deserves.

Anyway, congratulations on your achievement Mark, long may your success continue.
 

Mark Warburton

No one else it could have fairly gone to.

Onwards and upwards we go :D
 

Mark Warburton

Congratulations to MW on a very well deserved award and for keeping up the standards of the previous post holder - seems he make put a popular phrase to bed in time as he is making it hard to see who could ever be better than sliced bread lol
 
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