New Stadium Progress
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New Stadium Progress
Losing 600k a year? It seems pretty much sh*t or bust to me.... :shrug:
If we can get out of this bloody division this season (at the right end) then the annual losses can easily be brought down to around £200k in short order whilst being competitive in League One. Compared to the 2007-8 provisional loss (still under audit) we have forecast to slice a chunk off these for 2008-9 whilst increasing the playing budget and with lower forecast attendances than last seasons average. I am giving David Heath a hand with the numbers but all that this club needs and ever needed was a bit of luck on the field and a halfway decent MD/CEO who had a clue how to run a small business in trouble off the field. If someone had got a headlock on the business three years ago instead of telling us how ****ing wonderful everything was then we'd be there or almost there right now. David Heath can't go on forever working for nothing and he has his own businesses to attend to and it won't be me finishing it all off (too old and too tired plus I have my Paris stuff to look after) but once the core business has finally been slapped into some sort of shape then the external debt can comfortably be held at a figure which leaves enough equity in Griffin Park for the move to a new stadium to proceed. If we can start 2009-10 in League One then we're almost there and someone else can come in, continue to manage the sh*t out of it and see the good ship Brentford home and dry.
There now see what you've done and I've only been up an hour.
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Les Beeavinu
Administrator
New Stadium Progress
If we can get out of this bloody division this season (at the right end) then the annual losses can easily be brought down to around £200k in short order whilst being competitive in League One. Compared to the 2007-8 provisional loss (still under audit) we have forecast to slice a chunk off these for 2008-9 whilst increasing the playing budget and with lower forecast attendances than last seasons average. I am giving David Heath a hand with the numbers but all that this club needs and ever needed was a bit of luck on the field and a halfway decent MD/CEO who had a clue how to run a small business in trouble off the field. If someone had got a headlock on the business three years ago instead of telling us how ****ing wonderful everything was then we'd be there or almost there right now. David Heath can't go on forever working for nothing and he has his own businesses to attend to and it won't be me finishing it all off (too old and too tired plus I have my Paris stuff to look after) but once the core business has finally been slapped into some sort of shape then the external debt can comfortably be held at a figure which leaves enough equity in Griffin Park for the move to a new stadium to proceed. If we can start 2009-10 in League One then we're almost there and someone else can come in, continue to manage the sh*t out of it and see the good ship Brentford home and dry.
There now see what you've done and I've only been up an hour.
I assume that the debt would roll on and on with small chunks each year being paid off and that an increase in income leads to be bigger bites when possible. Is it likely therefore that until those years of pain are gone through, improvement on and off the field will be down to good fortune rather than any significant investment?
The Pipe
Well-known member
New Stadium Progress
abee, Luck and Brentford just cant be put in the same sentence!!!!
I hope that we can get out of this god awful league this season as I beleive that a further year languishing here will reduce income significantly as the "feel good" factor that is around the club will just vanish in the winds. In that scenario can you see the club having the ability to manage its losses??
I guess best option is for promotion and Man U in the cup live on the box however as I said before luck and Brentford do not go together so we would probably be drwan away to a minnow if we get to the 3rd round!!
I hope that we can get out of this god awful league this season as I beleive that a further year languishing here will reduce income significantly as the "feel good" factor that is around the club will just vanish in the winds. In that scenario can you see the club having the ability to manage its losses??
I guess best option is for promotion and Man U in the cup live on the box however as I said before luck and Brentford do not go together so we would probably be drwan away to a minnow if we get to the 3rd round!!
New Stadium Progress
Much of the debt is on a repayment schedule in 2011 and 2012 and in one of MB's loans (for £2m plus) through January 2022.
Good fortune is nice to have but should never be included in any worthwhile business plan. If we get into League One for next season then I believe that if the business is properly managed then we can have a competitive team in League One with minimal investment requirements for 2009-10 onwards. There is no way on this earth that the larger loans can be repaid from cash flow in 2011 and 2012 but as they are in 'friendly hands' then I imagine that rolling them on assuming that the lenders were satisfied with the course of the business would be doable. By the time the loans mature then the picture regarding Lionel Road will be much clearer and decisions easier to take.
New Stadium Progress
lol
You don't need me you need my wife.
On the door of our fridge/freezer is an organisation chart for the house. My wife is the sole entry under 'Management' and I'm under 'Unskilled labour available on call'.
PrincessBee
INVALID EMAIL
love it.New Stadium Progress
A prolonged stay in League Two would in my judgement result in a 'best case' of midtable with losses in the £300k-£400k range. Financing losses of this order depends upon finding a willing lender but that then over a period reels in the remaining equity on GP. I don't wanna think about it 'cos we simply have to get out of League Two.
New Stadium Progress
Shirley Bee
Active member
New Stadium Progress
This is either a miracle, or indicates monumental incompetence in the immediate past. Assuming the latter, it also explains why there was talk (promises?) of running the club on a break-even budget right up until Brian Burgess did his match-day appeal to the masses.
If the budget comes to pass, the assumed attendance income has been reduced, but the spending increased and still the loss has been reduced. For this to be possible, there was either a) enormous wastage, b) an off-field gain from sponsorship or the like has been included, or c) there won't actually be enough money to stage any matches next season.
What was it abee, incompetence, or is there even more good news on the way?
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
New Stadium Progress
Hi Keith. I'm pretty busy right now but I'll get back to you.
I've just got this. :laugh:
New Stadium Progress
This is either a miracle, or indicates monumental incompetence in the immediate past. Assuming the latter, it also explains why there was talk (promises?) of running the club on a break-even budget right up until Brian Burgess did his match-day appeal to the masses.
If the budget comes to pass, the assumed attendance income has been reduced, but the spending increased and still the loss has been reduced. For this to be possible, there was either a) enormous wastage, b) an off-field gain from sponsorship or the like has been included, or c) there won't actually be enough money to stage any matches next season.
What was it abee, incompetence, or is there even more good news on the way?
The sponsorship income will be down on last season unless someone comes in at the last minute. The club has produced an excellent 'Commercial Opportunities' brochure which was only completed last week. I'm very impressed with it and I'm not someone who is easily impressed.We do not have a sponsor for Braemar Road and the Samvo shirt sponsorship was not renewed. We could not find a sole sponsor for the shirt but David Heath had the excellent idea to split the sponsorships into home and away shirts to make it easier to sell. This was successfuly done but the value of the combined sponsorships for next seasons shirts are less than Samvo. We do not have a sponsor for Ealing Road. I don't know about any good news, a twopenny halfpenny business that racks up losses equating to a quarter of its turnover is not exactly a positive case study but I don't believe there will be any 'bad news' as I like all of my surprises to be happy ones. The only proviso that I have is as I posted the other day, that the credit crunch will really start to bite and that people will have to cut back on their footy fix to the point where average attendances are hovering around the 4k mark. If we have a team contesting promotion and we are unable to pull in average gates of over 4k then we may as well all pack up and go home.
Bigbee
Well-known member
New Stadium Progress
Hi Keith. I'm pretty busy right now but I'll get back to you.
rofl
Mads Bee
Active member
New Stadium Progress
New Stadium Progress
Barratt's trading update now online http://www.barrattdevelopments.co.uk/media/releases/Content.aspx?id=1538
and postive report on London House Prices http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a4dc91b6-4eae-11dd-ba7c-000077b07658.html
and postive report on London House Prices http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a4dc91b6-4eae-11dd-ba7c-000077b07658.html
Mr Cynical
Moderator
New Stadium Progress
If we can get out of this bloody division this season (at the right end) then the annual losses can easily be brought down to around £200k in short order whilst being competitive in League One. Compared to the 2007-8 provisional loss (still under audit) we have forecast to slice a chunk off these for 2008-9 whilst increasing the playing budget and with lower forecast attendances than last seasons average. I am giving David Heath a hand with the numbers but all that this club needs and ever needed was a bit of luck on the field and a halfway decent MD/CEO who had a clue how to run a small business in trouble off the field. If someone had got a headlock on the business three years ago instead of telling us how ****ing wonderful everything was then we'd be there or almost there right now. David Heath can't go on forever working for nothing and he has his own businesses to attend to and it won't be me finishing it all off (too old and too tired plus I have my Paris stuff to look after) but once the core business has finally been slapped into some sort of shape then the external debt can comfortably be held at a figure which leaves enough equity in Griffin Park for the move to a new stadium to proceed. If we can start 2009-10 in League One then we're almost there and someone else can come in, continue to manage the sh*t out of it and see the good ship Brentford home and dry.
There now see what you've done and I've only been up an hour.
That's good to hear. It did puzzle me how on earth we were still losing money hand over fist even after MB wiped out the majority of interest payments that were 'crippling us'..
I still believe this is a monumentally important season for us, another year in this division isn't going to help anyone. However, have been more than impressed with Scott's efforts so far in preparation for this season and we must have as good a chance as any. Let's hope we can get off to a good start and get the crowds coming back early..
New Stadium Progress
Mark Clare (Barratts CEO) comments http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t.../construction_and_property/article4312803.ece
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JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
You keep repeating inaccuracies so to stop fiction becoming fact I have to keep correcting you.
I understand from a previous post that you say that Brian Burgess has not contacted you. I was cc'd into an email from him to you on the 3rd of July. I will forward this to you again.
Mark
Thanks for the copy. There must be an issue with BFC/BU and my email account.
It gives some comfort and hopefully by the time the agreements are agreed and the appliction in/heard/consented, the residential market storm will be over or close to being over.
All the time it is there, there will be concerns over the whole residential developer question, that affects the whole sector, some more than others.
We will have to wait and see I guess.
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
You have an AOL email address. Case closed
The only time I have a problem with it, is when getting responses from BU/BFC.
Now, can I start the Freehold/leasehold/long leasehold debate?
Edmundo
Whinging pom
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
If there are, they can't be that important otherwise I would be aware of them.
If it makes you happy, as far as I am aware, the only time I have had a problem with my email account, which I have had for 8-10 years, is when I seek responses from BFC/BU.
Is that better?
Loughtonbee
Active member
New Stadium Progress
Spoke to Mark Clare personally the other day, very positive debate, he's not the plank the papers have made him out to be & Barratts aint the dead duck some people (including myself at times) thought. The market may be sh*t but Barratt are very much planning on surviving & coming out of this stronger than ever.
Time will tell but they've been through this before & they've got a positive battleplan to ride this out, survive & be at the forefront of the revival when it comes.
Maybe Lionel Road's not as far out of reach as I thought
Supes42
oh we love yer baldy head
New Stadium Progress
Spoke to Mark Clare personally the other day, very positive debate, he's not the plank the papers have made him out to be & Barratts aint the dead duck some people (including myself at times) thought. The market may be sh*t but Barratt are very much planning on surviving & coming out of this stronger than ever.
Time will tell but they've been through this before & they've got a positive battleplan to ride this out, survive & be at the forefront of the revival when it comes.
Maybe Lionel Road's not as far out of reach as I thought
That's pretty much the impression I got from the Barratts representative at Monday's Lionel Road Liaison Group meeting.
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
You're slacking, Taylor Wimpey and our very own Barratts are leading the rush in rising share prices so far today.
Still along way to go though.
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
I saving those for my sucker punch
Never mind, the Council of Mortgage Lenders have mortgage borrowings down a mere 23% on the same time last year.
Things can only get better. (thats a good line for a song title
)
JBN
In Training
SpiderBee
Surrey Wyvern
PrincessBee
INVALID EMAIL
New Stadium Progress
This new stadium isn't gonna happen is it?
course it is. don't worry about them.
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
New mortgage approvals are down 67% on the same time last year. :grey:
So that must be a good thing then?
rebus
On my final warning
Sweepy
Part-time Grapeviner
New Stadium Progress
In an odd way, it's in their interests to keep building, regardless of what the economy does. If they build, they have something to sell, though there is the risk they may not and their business goes tits up. If they don't build, they wont sell anything and their business will be guaranteed to go tits up.
I am hoping the proximity of this project to the Capital means that it is one of the safer options for property developers, and gives it more chance of succeeding.
Chorlton Bee
Active member
New Stadium Progress
While they're building they are having to pay wages, without income coming in from sales, and there is a massive over supply of the sorts of properties that are being built. Lofts/Warehouse conversions/flat conversions/starter home estates etc.
Would have thought the most sensible practice would be to cut overheads to a minimum and try and sell off some off any of the stock you have. As long as sites are weatherproofed they can be picked up again as and when.
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
Quite a few of them are. I work in property development and see it most days, however, as both you and banana seem to think different, I will leave you too it.
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JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7534052.stm
An extract from the article:
"Meanwhile house builders expect the number of new homes built in England and Wales this year to be the lowest since 1924."
An extract from the article:
"Meanwhile house builders expect the number of new homes built in England and Wales this year to be the lowest since 1924."
Ascot Bee
Born a Bee
New Stadium Progress
If the business cases behind the various components of the scheme are all essentially solid, the key to this development is the timing of its' construction.
Buy the project and build it out in 2009 - 2011 when the building industry is going to be looking for work and building cost inflation is forecast to be relatively low. Target completion for 2012 when the housing market in Outer London should be staging a recover.
As has been said before, the sales performance on the current Barratt developments in Brentford will be critical as they will be unlikely to press ahead at Griffin Park if they have 200 empty units in the same area sitting on their books.
Buy the project and build it out in 2009 - 2011 when the building industry is going to be looking for work and building cost inflation is forecast to be relatively low. Target completion for 2012 when the housing market in Outer London should be staging a recover.
As has been said before, the sales performance on the current Barratt developments in Brentford will be critical as they will be unlikely to press ahead at Griffin Park if they have 200 empty units in the same area sitting on their books.
unBEEliveable
You reds..
New Stadium Progress
Yes Britain is synonymous with a massive over supply of houses hence the very reasonable prices we all pay for our properties compared to other markets worldwide.....
Chorlton Bee
Active member
New Stadium Progress
There's a chronic shortage of affordable housing, (stemming from when council house tenants were suddenly able to buy their property and sell it the next day for an 80% profit) however if you look at my post I made a distinction to the type of property that is over supplied.
New Stadium Progress
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7534052.stm
An extract from the article:
"Meanwhile house builders expect the number of new homes built in England and Wales this year to be the lowest since 1924."
Note the term "this year".
JBN
In Training
New Stadium Progress
Barratts profits down but they still manage a poultry £130+m
A couple of developers I have spoken too, expect a tough 2009 with it picking up in 2010.
A couple of developers I have spoken too, expect a tough 2009 with it picking up in 2010.
kevalutonbee
Well-known member
New Stadium Progress
a poultry £130m? that's a lot of chickens.....
Perhaps somebody saved the goose that is laying the golden egg
