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Ref Watch

He gave a foul against Dean and booked him after playing advantage - after their striker couldn't think what to do so Douglas nicked it off him..
Late on first half their guy handballs it and then Harry gets bodychecked second later but they got the free kick.. if he genuinely thought Harry fouled him bring it back for the handball!! How he deemed it that Harry fouls him I'd never know..
 

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There seem to be a fair few people who think that he got their penalty right?

After watching the highlights, its a 50/50 ball which the Carlisle player controls with his arm anyway. Craig didn't go in particularly hard, but they definitely clash heads. Douglas and Dean appeal for the handball, but none of the Carlisle players appeal for a penalty.

Terrible ref.
 

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super J said:
Thought the penalty was actually the correct decision as it was a clumsy challenge from Craig .
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I thought it was soft but also thought craig was naive to give the ref any chance to blow up. Having seen it on TV I have to change my view and say it was a pathetic and poor decision.
 

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We really need ex players to become referees but the system is loaded against them. It's a fact that if you're any good at football, you play but it takes a long time to qualify as a ref which rules out anyone who plays til , say, their mid 30s. There have been some exceptions to the rule. Maybe ex pros could be fast tracked over, say 24 months?
 

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beebopalula said:
We really need ex players to become referees but the system is loaded against them. It's a fact that if you're any good at football, you play but it takes a long time to qualify as a ref which rules out anyone who plays til , say, their mid 30s. There have been some exceptions to the rule. Maybe ex pros could be fast tracked over, say 24 months?
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How long you think it takes??

Courses take a few weeks.
You qualify at level 7 or 8 dependant on age (under 18's are 8, above are 7)..
and then you apply for promotion each year up a level and are assessed whether your good enough...
To be up to premier league level must take about 6-7 years I'd say.

But what about training them up and doing junior games or even development games whilst still playing.
 

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beebopalula said:
We really need ex players to become referees but the system is loaded against them. It's a fact that if you're any good at football, you play but it takes a long time to qualify as a ref which rules out anyone who plays til , say, their mid 30s. There have been some exceptions to the rule. Maybe ex pros could be fast tracked over, say 24 months?
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That's not true. My Under 12 team is reffed by qualified refs each week who are generally no more than 18. They also to a man (or woman) play the game each weekend and juggle their matches around their playing time. They get £20+ a match which is not bad money for a 16 year old wanting to get a bit of extra money. The club I belong to (a big club in the area) is very keen on getting players involved in refereeing and sponsor a lot of them through the initial course.
 

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ladbroke said:
He gave a foul against Dean and booked him after playing advantage - after their striker couldn't think what to do so Douglas nicked it off him..
Late on first half their guy handballs it and then Harry gets bodychecked second later but they got the free kick.. if he genuinely thought Harry fouled him bring it back for the handball!! How he deemed it that Harry fouls him I'd never know..
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Once he's decided to play the advantage he has to go with whatever happens after that.

That said, I really couldn't see how he saw what happened afterwards as a foul by Forrester. When he gave the kick to Carlisle my first thought was that he'd given a dive, and I was waiting for the yellow card
 

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ladbroke said:
How long you think it takes??

Courses take a few weeks.
You qualify at level 7 or 8 dependant on age (under 18's are 8, above are 7)..
and then you apply for promotion each year up a level and are assessed whether your good enough...
To be up to premier league level must take about 6-7 years I'd say.

But what about training them up and doing junior games or even development games whilst still playing.
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OK so you hang up your boots at say 36,then wait 6-7 years. It isn't going to happen and it doesn't does it? IMO an ex pro should be able to go in at the top level after 24 months.
 

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Les Beeavinu said:
That's not true. My Under 12 team is reffed by qualified refs each week who are generally no more than 18. They also to a man (or woman) play the game each weekend and juggle their matches around their playing time. They get £20+ a match which is not bad money for a 16 year old wanting to get a bit of extra money. The club I belong to (a big club in the area) is very keen on getting players involved in refereeing and sponsor a lot of them through the initial course.
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I hear what you're saying mate but why is the standard so poor? In my playing days [ with greatest respect to those who are now doing this] players who play at a good/high level just didn't do ref training.I doubt that has changed. You need to play at a good/high level IMO to understand what's' going on'. You also get the respect of the players. There are exceptions [ good refs] but that's exactly what they are ,exceptions. Just my view.
 

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Why should they??

They should be told to take the course at say 20 and that way throughout their careers they would also have a much better understanding of the laws of the game and may have more respect for them. If they do games throughout their playing career by the time they are retiring they'd hopefully have been promoted enough times to not be fast tracked ala atwell!!
 

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When I was playing on a sunday all the young refs were like the kids who got bullied at school, and all the older refs were uselss!

A notable exception was colin downeys son, who reffed a few of my games when very young and was excellent.
 

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A Real Mysteron said:
When I was playing on a sunday all the young refs were like the kids who got bullied at school, and all the older refs were uselss!

A notable exception was colin downeys son, who reffed a few of my games when very young and was excellent.
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roflroflroflroflroflroflrofl only joking Matthew
 

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Problem with ex players is that most dont actualy know the rules!!

The other aspect is that at the end of a career which, over 15 years could have paid a small fortune the player can either augment their healthy bank balance and get vilified by all and sundry or, instead, become a pundit and pontificate on the various sporting shows pointing out the refs mistakes !! Know which option I would chose!!!
 

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I may have mentioned it earlier on this thread but yesterday's performance by the man in black only confirmed my worries about the poor standards of refereeing nowadays. I won't pick out any particular decisions but the geeks at the institute of sporting research may want to investigate this decline :thetruth:
 

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I'm pretty sure the ball went out for a throw in but ref awarded a corner which Douglas scored from
 

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In my 50 years of coming to GP he was by far the worst ref ever - I mean ever. But his performance did at least galvanise the crowd into cracking support for the Bees and created the best atmosphere at GP so far this season. I don't think I have ever heard the crowd chanting off, off, off at a ref before - and this was us old gits in the New Road. Quality stuff from us old gents. I've only just got my voice back. That all said who actually marks him because he really should never be given the opportunity to ref in the football league again. Can we get a petition going to present to the league?
 

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ruislip bee said:
In my 50 years of coming to GP he was by far the worst ref ever - I mean ever. But his performance did at least galvanise the crowd into cracking support for the Bees and created the best atmosphere at GP so far this season. I don't think I have ever heard the crowd chanting off, off, off at a ref before - and this was us old gits in the New Road. Quality stuff from us old gents. I've only just got my voice back. That all said who actually marks him because he really should never be given the opportunity to ref in the football league again. Can we get a petition going to present to the league?
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In 63-64 we had a worse ref vs Margate [ 2-2] in the FA Cup. He was soooo bad there was a pitch invasion at the end [ unheard of then] where he was chased to the tunnel by irate fans. Absolutely true. Anyone else remember that or am I losing it?
 

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The ref on saturday was awful no doubt about it, but to be fair there needs to be other changes made in the game to make the refs job easier. I would start with only captains being able to talk to the ref and a greater role for the linesman and fourth officials where they actually talk to each other on important incidents. Play back technology is obviously a must but could be dependant on money. The other thing is will the ref get feedback on his performance, because if he does not get better it will just continue. Something has to happen here, the ref almost spoiled the game on saturday.
 

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Interesting replies here . Some arguments include the fact that some pros don't know the rules [I doubt this is true but we don't want all of them] or that they make enough money so why would they be motivated [ not true of lower leagues and some careers are cut short] or you can progress up the leagues in say 6 or 7 years after you leave the game at 35. IMO this just defends the status quo. There would be ex pros who would like the job and would be very good at it and they should be fast tracked in. The point is that you have to understand what's going on in players' minds and you can't have that unless you've played at that standard. Players want consistency in decision making, a ref knowing when a foul really is a foul,clamping down on the nasty stuff,not getting fixated on the petty stuff and letting the game flow.
IMO it's a closed shop which excludes ex players which is demonstrably the case as there aren't any ex pros reffing now nor have there ever been as far as I know. Meanwhile we have to tolerate the standard we have and these are the refs who've been through the assessment system. And BTW turning to linos:mad1: I'm sick of linos who don't look at when the ball was kicked before calling offside or wait for a ref decision before flagging a throw and agreeing with the ref. How do they get on the list?
 

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ruislip bee said:
In my 50 years of coming to GP he was by far the worst ref ever - I mean ever. But his performance did at least galvanise the crowd into cracking support for the Bees and created the best atmosphere at GP so far this season. I don't think I have ever heard the crowd chanting off, off, off at a ref before - and this was us old gits in the New Road. Quality stuff from us old gents. I've only just got my voice back. That all said who actually marks him because he really should never be given the opportunity to ref in the football league again. Can we get a petition going to present to the league?
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I know what you mean, but no one will ever replace Ray Bigger in my personal pantheon of hate.
 

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I apologise to anyone offended by my language on saturday but i almost lost the plot completely with that fricking idiot.

Did us a favour though as he changed the atmosphere form crap to brilliant.

Cant remember the last i saw such a reaction towards a ref at half time.
 

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beebopalula said:
.......I'm sick of linos who don't look at when the ball was kicked before calling offside or wait for a ref decision before flagging a throw and agreeing with the ref. How do they get on the list?
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Agree in principal - but linos (sorry, assistant refs) are only there to show that a player is in an off-side position - it's up to the ref to decide the rest (when the ball was played, is he interferring with play etc)

.
 

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A Real Mysteron said:
When I was playing on a sunday all the young refs were like the kids who got bullied at school, and all the older refs were uselss!

A notable exception was colin downeys son, who reffed a few of my games when very young and was excellent.
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He booked me at Griffin Park in a fans game :mad1:
 

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larrysigny said:
Agree in principal - but linos (sorry, assistant refs) are only there to show that a player is in an off-side position - it's up to the ref to decide the rest (when the ball was played, is he interferring with play etc)

.
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Can I be the first to say that is totally wrong?

Assistant referees on any kind of senior football are given complete control over offside. The only time when a ref might limit the lino's responsibility in this way is if he was a useless-looking club lino on a parks game.

Typically, as well as offsides, the ref will look to the lino to take the lead on throws in his half, goal-kick/corners on his side, and to support the ref on free kick/penalty offences when he is better placed than the ref.
 

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I very much doubt more than half of current pros even know all the rules....
 

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beebopalula said:
Interesting replies here . Some arguments include the fact that some pros don't know the rules [I doubt this is true but we don't want all of them] or that they make enough money so why would they be motivated [ not true of lower leagues and some careers are cut short] or you can progress up the leagues in say 6 or 7 years after you leave the game at 35. IMO this just defends the status quo. There would be ex pros who would like the job and would be very good at it and they should be fast tracked in. The point is that you have to understand what's going on in players' minds and you can't have that unless you've played at that standard. Players want consistency in decision making, a ref knowing when a foul really is a foul,clamping down on the nasty stuff,not getting fixated on the petty stuff and letting the game flow.
IMO it's a closed shop which excludes ex players which is demonstrably the case as there aren't any ex pros reffing now nor have there ever been as far as I know. Meanwhile we have to tolerate the standard we have and these are the refs who've been through the assessment system. And BTW turning to linos:mad1: I'm sick of linos who don't look at when the ball was kicked before calling offside or wait for a ref decision before flagging a throw and agreeing with the ref. How do they get on the list?
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Agree with all that, in any other sport the unprire/ referees all seem to be ex players of one kind or another. I thought I read somewhere the FA were going to introduce a scheme for fast tracking ex players?

Having said that I watched Howard Webb on Sunday on Sky and he seemed able to let the game flow without blowing up at every turn but I guess he is not the norm.
 

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beebopalula said:
Interesting replies here . Some arguments include the fact that some pros don't know the rules [I doubt this is true but we don't want all of them] or that they make enough money so why would they be motivated [ not true of lower leagues and some careers are cut short] or you can progress up the leagues in say 6 or 7 years after you leave the game at 35. IMO this just defends the status quo. There would be ex pros who would like the job and would be very good at it and they should be fast tracked in. The point is that you have to understand what's going on in players' minds and you can't have that unless you've played at that standard. Players want consistency in decision making, a ref knowing when a foul really is a foul,clamping down on the nasty stuff,not getting fixated on the petty stuff and letting the game flow.
IMO it's a closed shop which excludes ex players which is demonstrably the case as there aren't any ex pros reffing now nor have there ever been as far as I know. Meanwhile we have to tolerate the standard we have and these are the refs who've been through the assessment system. And BTW turning to linos:mad1: I'm sick of linos who don't look at when the ball was kicked before calling offside or wait for a ref decision before flagging a throw and agreeing with the ref. How do they get on the list?
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Some valid points here, but as a former lino on senior football for more than twenty years:

* you can't look at when the ball is being kicked, as you have to focus on where the (constantly moving) attacker is in relation to the last defender. You obviously keep half an eye on where the ball is and when it's likely to be played forward, but for the precise moment when the ball is being kicked, linos at the top level will do it by ear. For what it's worth I don't think this is a big problem in most matches I see

* the point about linos following the ref on throwins is more difficult. Linos have to follow the instructions the ref gives them. Most refs will tell their linos that throwins in the lino's half are for the lino, but they should give the ref 'first bite' once the throw is more than 10 yards or so in the other half. This is not unreasonable, as if the ref is correctly positioned he will probably be nearer than the lino in those cases. There is a grey area around the halfway line when (unless it is really obvious which way the throw should go) there will normally be some discrete communication between ref and lino. Look closely and you will often see the ref pointing with a hand or finger at waist level - this is intended as a signal for the lino to follow. (Even now I think they will communicate in this way rather than using their mikes and earpieces.) A lino who doesn't follow the ref's instructions and signals is in for a b*ollocking from the ref at half or full time, and a poor mark.

I can only agree, though, that it looks bad when it appears that the lino is just blindly following the ref. The trick with experienced refs and linos is to communicate in a way that the crowd can't see and doesn't make either of them look as if they don't know what they're doing.
 

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pompeybee said:
* you can't look at when the ball is being kicked, as you have to focus on where the (constantly moving) attacker is in relation to the last defender. You obviously keep half an eye on where the ball is and when it's likely to be played forward, but for the precise moment when the ball is being kicked, linos at the top level will do it by ear. For what it's worth I don't think this is a big problem in most matches I see
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for what it's worth, this is why the offside rule is fundamentally stupid, you're asking the lino to look in two places at once

i saw Rio turn around and give the lino a huge b***ocking vs Villa, the striker was beyond him (he could see that) but the left-back was behind him and playing the striker onside, but jumped out (too late). really no need for Rio to do all that shouting :nono:
 

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On the question of ex-pros taking up refereeing. A couple of years back Steve Baines was on the league list having previously played for Chesterfield amongst other clubs. he seems to have come of the list probably to being over age now. I'm sure there have been a couple of others in recent years also. When the Football League site used to publish profiles of refs on the league lists it was interesting to see a number of themhad played at a decent semi-pro level (ie Mark Halsey) but had to retire through injury or just never quite made it.
 

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BURFORD BEE said:
The one on Saturday would have trouble finding his own arse so I think that would be asking rather a lot of him.
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He was however very good at holding the whistle up clearly after awarding free kicks as well as counting out 10 paces for the wall.
 

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pompeybee said:
The arsehole is known in refereeing circles as the 'third eye'.
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Thought you were referring to Mr Davies having a nickname for a minute. Oops.

Anyway Torquay have the pleasure of his centre-staging this Saturday.
 

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The ref in this AFC Wombles v York game has done a very good job tonight
 

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Very easy to criticise officials, especially if we feel hard done by however in the main they get a significant number of decisions correct and even after watching the decisions back time after time often the pundits cannot agree

In the main this season the refs have been of an adequate or better standard which makes Saturdays fool stand out so much. Obviously he must feel he gave an honest and objective performance which is a worrying thought

One would hope the assessor will have given an honest report and that the Referees Association can take some action with him, not holding my breath. Will be interesting to see the relative views of the teams he is cocking up on Sat but even if he has another shocker I doubt any action will be taken!!
 

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The Pipe said:
Very easy to criticise officials, especially if we feel hard done by however in the main they get a significant number of decisions correct and even after watching the decisions back time after time often the pundits cannot agree

In the main this season the refs have been of an adequate or better standard which makes Saturdays fool stand out so much. Obviously he must feel he gave an honest and objective performance which is a worrying thought

One would hope the assessor will have given an honest report and that the Referees Association can take some action with him, not holding my breath. Will be interesting to see the relative views of the teams he is cocking up on Sat but even if he has another shocker I doubt any action will be taken!!
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Assessor was still in his seat some time after the final whistle and I tried to engage him in conversation - he just looked straight through me and never said a word - I assume he was making sure that Mr Davies gets fast tracked to the Premiership. roflroflrofl
 

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Aberdeen flyer said:
Assessor was still in his seat some time after the final whistle and I tried to engage him in conversation - he just looked straight through me and never said a word - I assume he was making sure that Mr Davies gets fast tracked to the Premiership. roflroflrofl
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That is probably a bit too close to the truth for comfort. It would have been very interesting to have been a fly on the wall during the assessors run through of the game. Where do you start with him??? Uwe marched over to him at HT and it was clear he wasnt going to improve in the second half. Not one of their players appealed for the pen and i am just so relieved that we came out of this game with the right result. He really was utterly dreadful from the moment he started the game three minutes late.
 

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Watching mk dons v tranmere game and assistant gives goal kick for ball being out, though one, doubt he could tell and two, if it was out it was off the defender by a long way.. corner it should have been...
 

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Nigel Miller from Durham is today's official. Experienced ref who doesn't seem to have improved much with experience.
 

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Referee for Tuesday's game at Swindon is Dean Whitestone who is a police officer from Northamptonshire.He has been on the League list for 6 years and has officiated our games before.
 

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I am afraid to report that we have the pleasure :rolleyes: of Andy D'Urso in the middle on Saturday v Sheff.Utd.
 

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Aberdeen flyer said:
Referee for Tuesday's game at Swindon is Dean Whitestone who is a police officer from Northamptonshire.He has been on the League list for 6 years and has officiated our games before.
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And was utterly s**t tonight.
 
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