Sam Saunders

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Sam Saunders

blunstone said:
we all agree to disagree on certain issues.


i enjoy reading views by people like nick logan and davee and nlb and northampton bee even if we often agree to disagree. years ago sweepy and i never agreed on anything but times change!

a very few posters (those who are just nasty about players whether i privately rate the player or not), well i skip their posts.

easy. try it!
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Not quite sure what you're saying here Blunstone. I thought this board was for opions and views on the team, matches etc. I am not being "nasty" about players, quite the contrary, I really rate Sam Saunders and "in my opinion" he should be given an opportunity to prove what he can do in a position that's not all about being able to run fast. AS has signed a few "runners" ....Shakes and Taylor spring too mind and where are they now ?

But there are some people on here who cannot accept a different viewpoint without getting their knickers in a twist.

But in football parlance, at the end of the day it's the manager who signs the players he wants, picks the team and gets them to play in a certain way...end of really.
 

Sam Saunders

North London Bee said:
Unfortunately,GP without the goals too!

SS promises so much but he has produced very little in terms of goals and assists. I also think he is a confidence player who needs to be loved and seen as the fulcrum of the team and this has never happened to him.

I hope he gets a move, ideally to Div 2 as I really think that in different circumstances he could really come good.

Shame it hasn't worked out as his signing really excited me.
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It excited me as well NLB, in fact I thought all the 'Dagenham Three" were likely to make it but all failed to cut the mustard in L1. They will probably have a good season in L2 this year but that seems to be their level.

Andy makes some good signings but he also has made his fair share of bad ones.
 

Sam Saunders

shouldbee said:
Don't tell me to grow up............clearly you cannot recognise a skillfull talented footballer ?
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when has he shown this, people are picking out 5mins here, and a moment there from the last year. We need far more than that unfortunately. AS obviously feels the same, and he must see him in training also.

I would have loved Saunders to work, he is just the type of player that could change a game and really hurt the opposition, but for whatever reason he just hasn't shown that. Maybe Stevenage in the JPT will be his next chance.
 
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Sam Saunders

I would suggest that the problem is that Sam does not suit the style of football that Andy has deemed to be our way forward, now we can all agree or disagree regarding the style of play, my own opinion is that it is not going to attract new punters as it is pretty one dimensional. Andy however has stated that the style of play has been succesfull in the past, cant argue, and therefore that will be the way forward.
It rewquires when succesfull for players to give 110% effort to be able to defend and attack and have very good engine, it does not allow for players who want time on the ball and who want to play "tippy Tappy" for tha reason I would expect Sam to be leaving.
In my opinion it is a shame as he has undoubted talent and has never really been utilisid in his best position playing behind the front men, I would love to see him have a run in midfield but dont think he will be given that chance,
Ultimatley it is all about opinions, I think he could have done well for the club but in a team that played a different style of football.
 

Sam Saunders

"We have great options now with Sam and Myles on the left, Nicky and Robbie on the right and we have some firepower up front as well"
AS quote after Swindon match.

No mention of Saunders......
 

Sam Saunders

Surely a good manager can coach players to play in different styles and tactics? To recruit a set of players that can only play in one dimension doesnt seem like rocket science to me? Instead of having low cost players playing one style we are now getting more expensive players with better ability in the same one style.I dont think this is particularly clever tbh.
 

Sam Saunders

Brentford_till_die said:
"We have great options now with Sam and Myles on the left, Nicky and Robbie on the right and we have some firepower up front as well"
AS quote after Swindon match.

No mention of Saunders......
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:imwith:
The evidence mounts... AS just doesn't see him as part of the squad.
 

Sam Saunders

Bigbee said:
Surely a good manager can coach players to play in different styles and tactics? To recruit a set of players that can only play in one dimension doesnt seem like rocket science to me? Instead of having low cost players playing one style we are now getting more expensive players with better ability in the same one style.I dont think this is particularly clever tbh.
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I don't see it like that at all. In Diagouraga, Adams and Forster to name but three we have players capable of playing "tippy tappy" football as well as the more direct game that AS currently favours.

And to clarify, by direct I mean getting the ball to the wide quickly and getting down the wing to supply crosses to the two strikers. I don't think that the spells of aimless hoof ball that we've seen in the first couple of games are in any way representative of the style that we're trying to play and are more to do with players familiarising themselves with the system and each other.

There is a big difference between aimless punts up field and adopting a direct style of play IMO and the latter doesn't have to be painful to the eye.
 

Sam Saunders

Brentford_till_die said:
Big shame IMO
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I agree it's a shame but at the same time, has he really done himself justice in the time he's had to prove himself ? I accept that there's an argument for saying that he hasn't had enough of a chance but to my mind his deficiencies outweigh the positive aspects to his game.

Take Simpson as an example; He's excellent in the air, strong in the tackle and can carry the ball pretty well. Sam Saunders is undoubtedly better on the ball than Simpson but his poor tackling and aerial ability render him a luxury IMO and would leave the right back exposed in a way that you just wouldn't see with someone of Simpson's defensive attributes.

The same argument applies to playing Saunders in the middle. Whilst I'd be more than happy to see us bring in a player who could improve upon the current options we have to partner Dave (Kev, Bean, Hunt) and to add a little more flair in the middle, whilst Saunders may bring a greater passing element and the ability to carry the ball, what you'd lose with his lack of combativeness would IMO mean that you'd not be able to win enough of the ball in the middle to benefit from his attributes anyway.

Wanting additional flair in the team, whether that be on the right or through the middle is one thing, but regrettably Saunders is not the answer to that perceived problem IMO.
 

Sam Saunders

Owlsmoor_Bee said:
I don't see it like that at all. In Diagouraga, Adams and Forster to name but three we have players capable of playing "tippy tappy" football as well as the more direct game that AS currently favours.

And to clarify, by direct I mean getting the ball to the wide quickly and getting down the wing to supply crosses to the two strikers. I don't think that the spells of aimless hoof ball that we've seen in the first couple of games are in any way representative of the style that we're trying to play and are more to do with players familiarising themselves with the system and each other.

There is a big difference between aimless punts up field and adopting a direct style of play IMO and the latter doesn't have to be painful to the eye.
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Unfortunately we seem to specialise in aimless punts. Getting the ball wide isn't sophisticated or clever-it's basic and all teams try to do it. It's also v easy to shut down. So you need options which AS labels tippy tappy but I prefer to call playing football.
 

Sam Saunders

beebopalula said:
Unfortunately we seem to specialise in aimless punts. Getting the ball wide isn't sophisticated or clever-it's basic and all teams try to do it. It's also v easy to shut down. So you need options which AS labels tippy tappy but I prefer to call playing football.
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Oh come on, in training AS isn't going 'now smash the ball up field and hopefully our strikers will do something' is he? We seem to resort to long balls when put under pressure, when we are on top our system works fine.

With the impressive options we have wide now (Weston, Wood, Simpson, Adams) it would be foolish not to try to use them to our advantage.

Unfortunately a lot of people on here seem to want the 'tippy tappy', not the work the ball wide and get forward quickly approach. But as I have said before, Andy Scott was a winger and he sets the team up in his preferred style. He is not going to favour the Spanish pass a team to death approach.

I dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the way we play, and as the team gels we will refine our style and improve. We certainly aren't going to start playing a different way at this stage, and I think we play exciting football on our day. Stimpson criticised our set-up and said something like 'the way they play football is not the way forward, our style is' and now Gillingham is relegated and he was sacked.
 
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Sam Saunders

Owlsmoor_Bee said:
I agree it's a shame but at the same time, has he really done himself justice in the time he's had to prove himself ? I accept that there's an argument for saying that he hasn't had enough of a chance but to my mind his deficiencies outweigh the positive aspects to his game.

Take Simpson as an example; He's excellent in the air, strong in the tackle and can carry the ball pretty well. Sam Saunders is undoubtedly better on the ball than Simpson but his poor tackling and aerial ability render him a luxury IMO and would leave the right back exposed in a way that you just wouldn't see with someone of Simpson's defensive attributes.

The same argument applies to playing Saunders in the middle. Whilst I'd be more than happy to see us bring in a player who could improve upon the current options we have to partner Dave (Kev, Bean, Hunt) and to add a little more flair in the middle, whilst Saunders may bring a greater passing element and the ability to carry the ball, what you'd lose with his lack of combativeness would IMO mean that you'd not be able to win enough of the ball in the middle to benefit from his attributes anyway.

Wanting additional flair in the team, whether that be on the right or through the middle is one thing, but regrettably Saunders is not the answer to that perceived problem IMO.
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:sorted:
Your always spot on mate !
 

Sam Saunders

Well if he's any good the scouts will be knocking on AS's door soon enough to get him on loan or signed up permanently, it will be no secret that he out of the team/ squad....

IMHO he will probably end up in BSP.
 

Sam Saunders

Owlsmoor_Bee said:
I agree it's a shame but at the same time, has he really done himself justice in the time he's had to prove himself ? I accept that there's an argument for saying that he hasn't had enough of a chance but to my mind his deficiencies outweigh the positive aspects to his game.

Take Simpson as an example; He's excellent in the air, strong in the tackle and can carry the ball pretty well. Sam Saunders is undoubtedly better on the ball than Simpson but his poor tackling and aerial ability render him a luxury IMO and would leave the right back exposed in a way that you just wouldn't see with someone of Simpson's defensive attributes.

The same argument applies to playing Saunders in the middle. Whilst I'd be more than happy to see us bring in a player who could improve upon the current options we have to partner Dave (Kev, Bean, Hunt) and to add a little more flair in the middle, whilst Saunders may bring a greater passing element and the ability to carry the ball, what you'd lose with his lack of combativeness would IMO mean that you'd not be able to win enough of the ball in the middle to benefit from his attributes anyway.

Wanting additional flair in the team, whether that be on the right or through the middle is one thing, but regrettably Saunders is not the answer to that perceived problem IMO.
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good post.
 

Sam Saunders

Stanley said:
Well if he's any good the scouts will be knocking on AS's door soon enough to get him on loan or signed up permanently, it will be no secret that he out of the team/ squad....

IMHO he will probably end up in BSP.
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no chance of that. Would not surprise me if D&R looked at getting him back, even on loan would work for us, just incase he does spark himself into life there
 

Sam Saunders

maddogging said:
no chance of that. Would not surprise me if D&R looked at getting him back, even on loan would work for us, just incase he does spark himself into life there
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As I said, I reckon he will end up at somewhere like Southend or Aldershit.
 

Sam Saunders

I bet he would go back D&R.
Would see him play two blinders for them against us if it did happen
 

Sam Saunders

detours said:
Oh come on, in training AS isn't going 'now smash the ball up field and hopefully our strikers will do something' is he? We seem to resort to long balls when put under pressure, when we are on top our system works fine.

With the impressive options we have wide now (Weston, Wood, Simpson, Adams) it would be foolish not to try to use them to our advantage.

Unfortunately a lot of people on here seem to want the 'tippy tappy', not the work the ball wide and get forward quickly approach. But as I have said before, Andy Scott was a winger and he sets the team up in his preferred style. He is not going to favour the Spanish pass a team to death approach.

I dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the way we play, and as the team gels we will refine our style and improve. We certainly aren't going to start playing a different way at this stage, and I think we play exciting football on our day. Stimpson criticised our set-up and said something like 'the way they play football is not the way forward, our style is' and now Gillingham is relegated and he was sacked.
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I know what you're saying, but I don't think people that want a bit more creativity in the side are necessarily looking for Spanish style football. Just a bit more ability on the ball from those in the centre of the park - which Dave has, but the other alongside him does not (and no, I'm not bashing KOC, just saying I think we could do with a better CM than him if we want to challenge).

It's only good having great wingers if we get the ball to them quickly and in good positions - at the moment that does not happen often enough, not least because our CMs often take too long to get the ball under control.

AS's teams produce quality football sometimes, and when they do, he can take the credit, when they don't, and we play hoofball (whether he's telling them to in training or not) then he can expect some stick. That's what being a manager's all about, and I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to cope with a bit of quibbling on a board he doesn't even read.
 

Sam Saunders

Was Saunders a free-bee or did we pay a fee for him???
 

Sam Saunders

sussexb said:
AS's teams produce quality football sometimes, and when they do, he can take the credit, when they don't, and we play hoofball (whether he's telling them to in training or not) then he can expect some stick. That's what being a manager's all about, and I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to cope with a bit of quibbling on a board he doesn't even read.
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I do think Dave is a player with great visibility in the middle of the park, he can see a good pass, but he doesn't win the ball as well as Marcus Bean does, and in turn Bean doesn't read the game as well as KOC does. I think to get a midfielder with all those attributes is a bit above our station :sad:

As for the long ball thing, it really does piss me off when we resort to that. I hope AS is telling them not to hoof it in training, because it really shouldn't be the way we play (regardless of Charlies goal saturday).

Back to topic, anyone think a surprise showing for Saunders tonight? League Cup... maybe coming on as a substitute?

Nah... me neither, I wouldn't be surprised if Wycombe get him on a free soon enough.
 

Sam Saunders

detours said:
I do think Dave is a player with great visibility in the middle of the park, he can see a good pass, but he doesn't win the ball as well as Marcus Bean does, and in turn Bean doesn't read the game as well as KOC does. I think to get a midfielder with all those attributes is a bit above our station :sad:

.
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I know what you mean, but all this talk of massive playing budgets has given me ideas above my station. :D Seriously, I'd just like to see some proof that AS at least thinks about it (he's picked up on other weaknesses in our team quickly enough, and ruthlessly enough at times) - but as you said in your post above this is one area he looks like he never will change style in at the moment, so I think I should just forget about it, for the sake of my own sanity...

As for Saunders - I agree. Likely we'll not see him again.
 

Sam Saunders

detours said:
Oh come on, in training AS isn't going 'now smash the ball up field and hopefully our strikers will do something' is he? We seem to resort to long balls when put under pressure, when we are on top our system works fine.

With the impressive options we have wide now (Weston, Wood, Simpson, Adams) it would be foolish not to try to use them to our advantage.

Unfortunately a lot of people on here seem to want the 'tippy tappy', not the work the ball wide and get forward quickly approach. But as I have said before, Andy Scott was a winger and he sets the team up in his preferred style. He is not going to favour the Spanish pass a team to death approach.

I dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the way we play, and as the team gels we will refine our style and improve. We certainly aren't going to start playing a different way at this stage, and I think we play exciting football on our day. Stimpson criticised our set-up and said something like 'the way they play football is not the way forward, our style is' and now Gillingham is relegated and he was sacked.
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I just luv your comments on Stimpson. It wont be long now before he gets the tin tac from Barnet, rofl
 

Sam Saunders

sussexb said:
I know what you're saying, but I don't think people that want a bit more creativity in the side are necessarily looking for Spanish style football. Just a bit more ability on the ball from those in the centre of the park - which Dave has, but the other alongside him does not (and no, I'm not bashing KOC, just saying I think we could do with a better CM than him if we want to challenge).

It's only good having great wingers if we get the ball to them quickly and in good positions - at the moment that does not happen often enough, not least because our CMs often take too long to get the ball under control.

AS's teams produce quality football sometimes, and when they do, he can take the credit, when they don't, and we play hoofball (whether he's telling them to in training or not) then he can expect some stick. That's what being a manager's all about, and I'm sure he's thick skinned enough to cope with a bit of quibbling on a board he doesn't even read.
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I think you have hit the nail on the head. Yes we have great wingers and I don't doubt that playing 'direct' makes best use of them. The problem (and I don't think it is too big a problem - I am confident we are going to have a good season) is that our CM, with the exception of Dave, telegraph their passes too much which gives the opposition more of a chance. This was clear to see against Walsall, who doubled up on our wingers every time and didn't allow us to play.
 

Sam Saunders

-superbees2k3- said:
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Yes we have great wingers and I don't doubt that playing 'direct' makes best use of them. The problem (and I don't think it is too big a problem - I am confident we are going to have a good season) is that our CM, with the exception of Dave, telegraph their passes too much which gives the opposition more of a chance. This was clear to see against Walsall, who doubled up on our wingers every time and didn't allow us to play.
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So,if clubs now double up on Weston, that means they are a man short in another area.You cant 'ave it all ways. I dont think there is anything better to watch than a speedy winger zooming down the wing and getting in a beautiful cross. Mike Block and Mark Lazarus were so good at this.
 

Sam Saunders

Big shame but best for both parties if he moves on!

All the very best Sam....

Oh Sammy Saunders
I'd let you shag my wife Sammy Saunders.....
Oldham away :) (Logan)
Went on for a good 20minutes when he was warming up and he was loving it haha along with Foster!
 

Sam Saunders

.......................good luck to him.....................
 

Sam Saunders

He needs to go for the benefit of both parties. Shame it didnt work out but thats life.
 

Sam Saunders

Shame, I think he is a good player but the club now seems to have higher aspirations. Good luck to him in the future. Hope he finds a good club.
 

Sam Saunders

Big Seb said:
Looks like Constructive Dismissal to me
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I don't think so - if that were the case every player omitted from his club's side could claim that. If AS had told him he had to clean the first team's kit if he wanted to get paid, or taken him up to Carlisle and lefthim to make his own way back, then that might be constructive dismissal.

Has shown enough touches for it to be disappointing if he goes, but he has never really got his game together enough for a side with play-off ambitions in Lge 1, and I can't imagine anyone would pick him ahead of Simpson
 

Sam Saunders

Sam was never given a chance in my opinion.
When he did start he was hauled off at half time. Often the scapegoat
You could see he was trying so hard but doing that made it even harder for him.
it was obvious Scott never fancied him from the start .So why did we sign him?
When ever we played Dagenham he was outstanding.
Shame
 

Sam Saunders

Bigbee said:
Surely a good manager can coach players to play in different styles and tactics? To recruit a set of players that can only play in one dimension doesnt seem like rocket science to me? Instead of having low cost players playing one style we are now getting more expensive players with better ability in the same one style.I dont think this is particularly clever tbh.
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You mean AS should make a sow's ear from a silk purse? It'll never happen
 

Sam Saunders

love and mercy said:
Sam was never given a chance in my opinion.
When he did start he was hauled off at half time. Often the scapegoat
You could see he was trying so hard but doing that made it even harder for him.
it was obvious Scott never fancied him from the start .So why did we sign him?
When ever we played Dagenham he was outstanding.
Shame
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Disagree I am afraid. As you say he was outstanding when he played against us which probably played a large part in Scott signing him, but he never was able to consistently replicate the same level of form for us. Personally I think that Lge 2 is his level and I would not be surprised that when he leaves it will be to a club in this division. Simpson has only played a handful of games so maybe an unfair comparison, but so far there is no way you would play Saunders ahead of him. Just did'nt work out unfortunately.
 

Sam Saunders

Bit passive aggressive by Mr Scott...

He said: “Things haven’t quite worked out for Sam, he hasn’t been playing and has seen other players brought in in his position."

Well you did that Andy, wasn't divine intervention was it?

Guess he wants to move him out swiftly, still two years to run on his contact and all, could cost us a few bob.
 

Sam Saunders

does any one know why we signed him?
Really annoys me when we waste money like that.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen to Spillane and Macracken.
Its great being ruthless but not when it costs the club money.
How about being more careful about the players we sign. Please
 

Sam Saunders

love and mercy said:
does any one know why we signed him?
Really annoys me when we waste money like that.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen to Spillane and Macracken.
Its great being ruthless but not when it costs the club money.
How about being more careful about the players we sign. Please
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It's frustrating if we take a loss on signings (don't know if that will happen with Saunders) but it is bound to happen sometimes.

Scott presumably signed him because he looked good against us and other Lge 2 opposition, and there would have been no chance to see him against "better" opposition; when he was tested in Lge 1, he seemed a bit short of what was needed for a club aiming for the top few places.

Too early to say what will happen with Spillane and McCracken, but if your stated aim is to have 2 decent players for each position, one of them will be out of the first 11 at any given time... if Vermaelen is fit, one of Arsenal's 2 new CBs won't be in the team, but that doesn't make Wenger a bad judge
 

Sam Saunders

love and mercy said:
does any one know why we signed him?
Really annoys me when we waste money like that.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen to Spillane and Macracken.
Its great being ruthless but not when it costs the club money.
How about being more careful about the players we sign. Please
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You're being ridiculous. Obviously, the club thought he could be a good player for us and fit into the way we play and help the club progress. He didn't show he could do this in training or during the matches he played. So should we only sign players guarenteed of a place in the starting eleven then? We don't need quality like Spillane in reserve for when people pick up injuries and suspensions?

We're all dissapointed it didn't work out for Saunders but I am becoming so bewildered by the amount of moaning old women on this website! If it's not one thing, it's another. How can you expect the manager to get it 100% right with every player in every position every time? If you want that, go watch Chelsea.
 

Sam Saunders

love and mercy said:
does any one know why we signed him?
Really annoys me when we waste money like that.
Looks like the same thing is going to happen to Spillane and Macracken.
Its great being ruthless but not when it costs the club money.
How about being more careful about the players we sign. Please
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Noades said one thing right when he was with us and that was "you are lucky if you get 1 in 3 of your transfers right".
Just because someone looks good when being scouted and playing for someone else, doesn't mean they will be good for you. Often its becuase its step up too far. Saunders is that case in point, it wasn't just Scott who thought he woudl be a good signing, most on here did having seen him play for someone else. :wave:
 

Sam Saunders

Davee said:
Anyone know the longest run he got in the team?
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Too long quite frankly - never been good enough... and I never personally felt that he was much of a team player.

Don't hold a grudge against the guy, just think it would be better for Brentford to let him go.

Spillane and McCracken are different kettles of fish. Spillane is a long-term signing, he'll feature soon enough, he's clearly good enough to do so. Can see him making that right back spot his. As for McCracken, I think we're missing his experience in defence. Wouldn't be too surprised to see him displace Legge at some point if the shaky league form continues.
 
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