That Oldham flag

[onehit]

The Problem is, they cant "oldham" goals that is

 

[Leicester Bee]

I am often seen wearing a Union Jack pin badge. I must be racist.
Although, to be fair, it is true to say that there are people who proclaim their Englishness and are genuinely racist. Some people do it to because they almost want to advertise their racial hatred. However, in my opinion, this is a minority, but, in the eyes of the left-wing, have ruined the opportunity for people to be openly patriotic.
I do think that people get patriots and racists mixed up and yes, I agree that Europe has not helped. In my opinion, it's the fault of the Germans. I have a large number of German friends who have told me that ever since they can remember, it has been a virtual crime for them to say that they are proud to be German other than at sporting events. Simply, the same problem is beginning to happen here and it won't be long before resentment grows.
If you stop people doing something, and it works both ways, i.e. stop ethnic minorities practising their own cultural celebrations and/or stop British people being patriotic, and it will lead to many problems.

 

[loyalbee]

i have an england flag covering one of my windows, i dont think anyone is suggesting to show the cross is racist but to put sometning as emotive as born live and die as if there is a social pecking order to being english is

 

[verwoodbees]

I know this is probably old hat bot what about the bournemouths flag being waved in the corner by braemer rd with the red hand on it i should think some of the crowd would be more offend of this .They say oldham has bad racial tension ,but living in the south of england in good old blue rinse bournemouth i've seen some racial tension stoked up by our friends from west ham and more notably cardiff joining forces with the bournemouth fans ,i' m not going into this anymore as i don't want to get anyone into trouble .
but i feel oldhams flag is patriotic not racist and before anyone replys think seriously about what alot of people go through in other countries with more things to worry about than whats on a flag

 

[ChinaBee]

I haven't read all the threads but it did seem to me that the northern people waved the flag after missed the chip that could have seen them going home with nil points.

all for ENGLAND when we are playing another country but................

 

[Westlad]

I guess it was implying that there shouldn't be any foreigners in the country.

 

[rebus]

Free speech does not encompass the right to be racially discriminate

Hello, no answer as yet - please see post 73.

 

[Sweepy]

It sounds like a perfectly acceptable flag for me.

And the final section probably should have been filled with "fight for England" - and why not?

Watch the news, and you wont see many fighting for the country. You do see plenty of Police Officers being shot, and communities spiralling out of control though. And further incidents like that will see such flags being flown on the streets.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

You do see plenty of Police Officers being shot, and communities spiralling out of control though.

No you don't.

 

[oldgreenfordian]

Hello, no answer as yet - please see post 73.

Mark,I thought I had made my point about the slogans in my post No.45.
What else do you think "Born in England ...etc" means?
I don't think there's much point continuing this thread if some of the posters will not address the issue,instead preferring to make facile remarks about political correctness and middle-class lefties.
Also,why do we allow poxy Oldham fans to come onto OUR board and insult us ?

 

[JBN]

Better things to worry about than a bunch of northern monkeys waving a flag.

I am more worried about the wearabouts of Sam Sodje, I'm sure he was in the starting line up.

 

[Wee Dave]

why do we allow poxy Oldham fans to come onto OUR board and insult us ?

How dare you.

Brave England won a war just so Oldham fans could have the freedom to insult us.

 

[rebus]

What else do you think "Born in England ...etc" means?

Er, Born In England.

What do you think it means?

Just asking like. I hope you're not one of these people that write into newspapers saying that the RAF advert at the England v Argentina game was "insensitive" due to the Falklands conflict.

 

[eghambee]

Nobody can say for certain what the intent of the flag and its comments were, apart from the person that created it.

It didnt abuse certain groups and therefore in the eyes of the law isnt rascist.

Everybody has their own view of the world, so some will see it as racist, some as patriotic, some as pointless and some didnt see it at all.

End of story really.Move on.

 

[Banana]

Not sure the "Similar Threads" thing is working too well:

Fly the Flag

 

[good minton]

hahaha brentford pc jokers strike again.

 

[Davee]

Isn't our home strip a bit much? Looking quite like the flag and then backing up the insult by adding the words 'St George'?

I think it should be banned.

 

[Banana]

hahaha brentford non-pc jokers strike again.

 

[richy]

What kind of country is this when you can be accused of being PC just for being concerned about our national flag being abused by racists?

It's patriotsm gone mad.....

 

[Nick Hester]

Does this mean everyone who sings..
'English till I die...' should be arrested?

Shame Radio London took time to air that blokes views, although like everything 'BBC' (Especially Radio London) it has gone left and PC to the Extreme. Right from the stance it takes on the Israel conflict right through to what some Northerner had on his flag?

Christ, Leicester Bee goes on a bit sometimes but its refreshing to read what he has to say.. Is he offended? No..

Islington ban Christmas lights, parts of Hampshire have stopped Father Christmas from Shopping Centres all to avoid upsetting people..
I'll tell you who it upsets, Me.. for not being able to let all the kid's in those perticular places experience Christmas how it should be..

Whats wrong with being ENGLISH and Proud, just as I won't knock a Pakistani who supports his team in the cricket, a Scot who proudly supports his Nation (although don't keep on about how better Scotland is...F*** Off back up there if its THAT good..I've been there, it isn't!!).

I'd imagine most of the ethnic groups are pretty embarrassed with all this sh*te that must make it difficult for them to live here aswell...

 

[Ronan]

The singing of National Anthems will be banned soon at football matches.

 

[Rod Gowers]

I didn't find the flag offensive, but I did think it was ignorant.

The reason behind the flag to me was to imply that if you were born in this country, you are by definition more "patriotic" than if you weren't, and by implication a better "Englishman". In my opinion this is complete and utter rubbish, and I also believe an insult to many people living in this country (which I also believe is how it was intended).

Not offensive, no, but very ignorant.

 

[Dangerous]

That flag is class and the idiots who it offended make me cringe and makes me embarrased to know bees fans complained.
The flag has been away to many england games and it represents Englishness and I would be happy to have that slogan tattoed on me as it is great.
Rasicst ha ha ha I am indian blood & Irish blood but I am ruddy proud to be an English man and I am ruddy proud to be born here.
to the persons who this offended F Off and Die.

 

[motherwell bee]

Why is it ignorant to show the words "Born in England, Live in England, die in England"??? im English and proud of it, really cant see what the problem is here.

 

[The H]

on the English flag too lol

 

[gashbee]

Well as a proud Englishman I do not feel that the message is one of either right-wing or racism.
I myself have brought "that" badge before:

1. Because I like the wording.
2. Because I am f**king proud to be English.

Am I supporting racism or racial hatred ?

 

[brian bee]

Speaking as a white middle class leftie liberal (or whatever), neither me nor Mrs bb gave it a second thought when it went up. The guys who did it probably are not very nice people but they have every right to put up the banner.
I cannot understand why some people get angry about this thread - I think it is very Brentford that there is a debate like this. That's what democracy and the web is all about.

 

[motherwell bee]

Why are they not very nice people for flying an english flag with the name of their team thru the middle, an england badge in the corner and 3 comments showing how proud they are to be English on it???

 

[brian bee]

Why are they not very nice people for flying an english flag with the name of their team thru the middle, an england badge in the corner and 3 comments showing how proud they are to be English on it???

I said "probably" as I don't know. Like many people, I have a strong suspicion that they are supporters of extreme right wing groups.

 

[AB]

Would the people who brought the flag be happy for someone like (for instance) myself or Leicester Bee to stand by the flag and its express wording (which apply equally- or probably will, who can tell where they are going to die?)? I suspect not, and that's why it might be seen as offensive. I couldn't give a monkey's to be honest and found the OAFC staff perfectly friendly when I went to the away game (then again, after fleecing me for £22 why wouldn't they be?).

Patriotism is no sin. Let's reclaim it as our privilege and birthright from the b n p scum.

 

[Billy Hunt]

I have a strong suspicion that they are supporters of extreme right wing groups.

Would the people who brought the flag be happy for someone like (for instance) myself or Leicester Bee to stand by the flag and its express wording (which apply equally- or probably will, who can tell where they are going to die?)? I suspect not

I believe that the planet Pluto is a giant Murray Mint.

 

[Wee Dave]

I believe that the planet Pluto is a giant Murray Mint.

You're getting it confused with Uranus :yes:

 

[Davee]

Born in Hampton. Live In Twickenham. Dead up in Mortlake.

 

[leatherhat]

The overtly PC attitude that is taken up in this country, in my opinion, will cause more damage in the long-run, as it harbours feelings of resentment, and the PC attitude, in my opinion, has led to examples of reverse discrimination which perpetuates the resentment.

I understand that human nature dictates that we are nationalistic (to an extent). We are all fundamentally tribal, hence our affinity for being associated with Brentford Football Club. We are are proud to come from West London. We are proud to be Londoners. We are proud to be southerners. We are proud to be English. We are proud to be British. We are proud to be European. And so on. It just depends on the situation.

Best post in the thread.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Why are they not very nice people for flying an english flag with the name of their team thru the middle, an england badge in the corner and 3 comments showing how proud they are to be English on it???

Dunno.

This is the craziest thread ever.

 

[rebus]

What else do you think "Born in England ...etc" means?

still waiting...

There's no such thing as covert racism. It's either racist or it isn't. I suspect most bigots don't even know what "semantics" are.

 

[Wee Dave]

still waiting...

There's no such thing as covert racism. It's either racist or it isn't. I suspect most bigots don't even know what "semantics" are.

Nonsense.

It's perfectly possible to hold racist views without thinking that you do. And thus it's perfectly possible to say or do something racist without you thinking that it is.

 

[sussexb]

Nonsense.

It's perfectly possible to hold racist views without thinking that you do. And thus it's perfectly possible to say or do something racist without you thinking that it is.

I agree. I also think it's quite funny that the "PC gone mad" brigade have probably outposted the "liberal pinko lefty bedwetters" about 8 to 1 on this page. No one's condemned it especially strongly - most of the anti (the flag) comments have been fairly low key and reasonable, I thought....

And so have most of the other side of the argument... So what's the problem? I think it's good that Brentford fans discuss something even as (relatively) trivial as this particular flag. IMO (as someone else said above) it shows our club in a good light. Lots of clubs around the country still have pretty repulsive racist elements in their crowd, and so its important the issue continues to get a high profile...

 

[California Bee]

Nonsense.

It's perfectly possible to hold racist views without thinking that you do. And thus it's perfectly possible to say or do something racist without you thinking that it is.

Without the intent it is not "racist". People can infer what they want but that does not inculpate someone who does not have the intent.

Someone was reprimanded here last year for using the word "niggardly" because it sounds racist. Utter rubbish!

 

[sussexb]

Without the intent it is not "racist". People can infer what they want but that does not inculpate someone who does not have the intent.

Someone was reprimanded here last year for using the word "niggardly" because it sounds racist. Utter rubbish!

That is, of course, utter rubbish. But equally, Wee Dave is right, you can be racist without intent, just as you can be sexist etc.

If it's so deeply ingrained as to appear "natural" people won't even notice they're doing it, or understand that what they're doing is racist. (I'm not saying that in connection to the Oldham flag, just in general).

 

[Wee Dave]

Without the intent it is not "racist". People can infer what they want but that does not inculpate someone who does not have the intent.

Someone was reprimanded here last year for using the word "niggardly" because it sounds racist. Utter rubbish!

The two points are very different (did you know the history of the word 'nitty-gritty'? It's not very nice).

To make up an extreme example, if some bloke doesn't think it's racist to get angry when his daughter marries a black guy, does that mean that it isn't?

I'm not being moralistic about "racism" - merely saying that if we define it as prejudice against someone because of their race then it's surely perfectly possible for it to exist without the person being aware of it. Everyone has their prejudices.

 

['Ayes B]

It seams it ok to sing "We're Brentford till I die" cos no one will be offended

If England are playing its best not to adapt the song cos others might be offended.

And any body who dare put that sentiment on a flag must be a racist.

Lets keep it real.

It was a flag, with a slogan, it wasn't racist, full stop .

FACT: Thousands of immigrants have had children who were born in England, Live in England and who probably intend to die in England

 

[Bigbee]

[QUOTE='Ayes B]FACT: Thousands of immigrants have had children who were born in England,( In free NHS hospitals ) Live in England( in free accomodation ) and who probably intend to die in England unless we kick them out ! [/QUOTE]


YEAH ! bloody parasites , I bet we pay for the funerals too !

 

[Bungy Bee]

Some people might find our logo..' St George ' offensive..how do you feel about that..Cardiff maybee...YOU REDS....

 

[moribee]

Flag was ok not a problem to anyone unless already screwed up

 

[Pete the Bee]

[QUOTE='Ayes B]FACT: Thousands of immigrants have had children who were born in England, Live in England and who probably intend to die in England[/QUOTE]

Son of an Irish immigrant.

Born here, will live here and unless the Frenchies kick off and a sniper gets me in the suburbs of a ruined Paris, will die here.

I'm English, and bloody proud.

The flag's not offensive, a bit sh*t maybe, but not offensive.

 

[rg12bee]

Man United have one!

Since when have Man Utd fans given a toss about England?

 

[Banana]

Man United have one!

That makes it OK then

 

[jande76959]

A group of us had a discussion at the game as to if it was racist. We were split about 50:50 as to whether it was or not, but no-one was sure it was'nt! At the very least it could easily be interpreted as such, whether intended or not.
The number of posts on the subject seem to indicate, given the background of Oldham with the racial tension and BNP that a large number of people felt this.

 

[Rocky_Latic]

I've never seen it inside Boundary Park, although the way you lot are bleating on about it. I wouldnt be suprised to see it make a special guest appearance.

Funny how it's only ever the southern clubs who have a problem with it