That Oldham flag

[The H]

if it was from Torquay, would people be thinking about it in the same way?? not sure.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I've never seen it inside Boundary Park, although the way you lot are bleating on about it. I wouldnt be suprised to see it make a special guest appearance.

Funny how it's only ever the southern clubs who have a problem with it

Do we have a problem with it then? It's a discussion thread and views have been expressed for and against. You seriously expect me to believe that that wouldn't happen on any site? Aren't you in danger of stereotyping?

 

[Rocky_Latic]

if it was from Torquay, would people be thinking about it in the same way?? not sure.

exactly, and i'm sure there's people in Torquay who are racists.

Surely, people on here dont think Oldham is a town full of racists lol

 

[WarrenBee]

Funny how it's only ever the southern clubs who have a problem with it

Some of us don't have a problem with it.

:shrug: :shrug:

 

[Rocky_Latic]

Do we have a problem with it then? It's a discussion thread and views have been expressed for and against. You seriously expect me to believe that that wouldn't happen on any site? Aren't you in danger of stereotyping?

It's a thread with a majority of your fans saying it only had a hidden agenda behind it. Ignoring the Oldham bit or the England flag in the bottom right hand corner of it. , Some of your fans are saying

"negatives - police, stewards and real Oldham fans who allowed that flag to be on show for the majority of the game."

I have never met, or read an Oldham opinion with anything bad to say about the flag.

it's only ever at the games down south that there's a chance of them being asked to take the flag down. Colchester, Thurrock, Brentford etc.

 

[Wee Dave]

Funny how it's only ever the southern clubs who have a problem with it

Schools are better down here

 

[Rocky_Latic]

Schools are better down here

Which is why I left mine at twelve to work as a coal miner!

 

[Wee Dave]

Which is why I left mine at twelve to work as a coal miner!

I hope they gave you lunch when you got to the mine

 

[Les Beeavinu]

It's a thread with a majority of your fans saying it only had a hidden agenda behind it. Ignoring the Oldham bit or the England flag in the bottom right hand corner of it. , Some of your fans are saying

I have never met, or read an Oldham opinion with anything bad to say about the flag.

it's only ever at the games down south that there's a chance of them being asked to take the flag down. Colchester, Thurrock, Brentford etc.

Some of our fans are saying they don't have a problem with it and it is not a thread where the majority are saying there is a hidden agenda. Never mind though, you carry on reading what you want to see so that it fits with your "southern softie" stereotype.

 

[Rocky_Latic]

you carry on reading what you want to see so that it fits with your "southern softie" stereotype.

Aye, You'll be moaning how cold Boundary Park is when you come up for the cup game lol

 

[Deathstroke]

Nonsense.

It's perfectly possible to hold racist views without thinking that you do. And thus it's perfectly possible to say or do something racist without you thinking that it is.

Totally agree.

Reminds me of a radio call in about racism where one caller said he didn't like being called black and preferred the term coloured, then the next caller said that coloured was racist and preferred the term black. If someone was mates with the first guy, he could quite easily offend the second guy by calling him coloured, as he believed that this was acceptable.

It is actually quite easy to tell is someone is being racist or isn't. People just like to put their own spin on things to justify their own political beliefs.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Aye, You'll be moaning how cold Boundary Park is when you come up for the cup game lol

I won't be going because my shorts are going to be in the wash.

 

[Leicester Bee]

I didn't find the flag offensive, but I did think it was ignorant.

The reason behind the flag to me was to imply that if you were born in this country, you are by definition more "patriotic" than if you weren't, and by implication a better "Englishman". In my opinion this is complete and utter rubbish, and I also believe an insult to many people living in this country (which I also believe is how it was intended).

Not offensive, no, but very ignorant.

What about the people who wear things that say "Proud to be British"? What about us who are proud to be Brentford? Does that "genuinely" make us any better than any other football fan? Purlease don't give me the rubbish, "yes we are, we are the best fans in the world". We are the same as others. We are different, but what gives us the right to say we are better than others? So do we now way that we are NOT proud to be Brentford? To me, it's the same thing.

I was born in England. I live in England. I fully expect to die in England. Cripes, ban me, I'm being racist. I'm proud to say the above things and I have the right to say it openly as do others. By criticising such people, who do NOT make up the entire Far Right racist community, you push them further to the right.

 

[WarrenBee]

What about the people who wear things that say "Proud to be British"? What about us who are proud to be Brentford? Does that "genuinely" make us any better than any other football fan? Purlease don't give me the rubbish, "yes we are, we are the best fans in the world". We are the same as others. We are different, but what gives us the right to say we are better than others? So do we now way that we are NOT proud to be Brentford? To me, it's the same thing.

I was born in England. I live in England. I fully expect to die in England. Cripes, ban me, I'm being racist. I'm proud to say the above things and I have the right to say it openly as do others. By criticising such people, who do NOT make up the entire Far Right racist community, you push them further to the right.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Would the people who brought the flag be happy for someone like (for instance) myself or Leicester Bee to stand by the flag and its express wording (which apply equally- or probably will, who can tell where they are going to die?)? I suspect not, and that's why it might be seen as offensive. I couldn't give a monkey's to be honest and found the OAFC staff perfectly friendly when I went to the away game (then again, after fleecing me for £22 why wouldn't they be?).

Patriotism is no sin. Let's reclaim it as our privilege and birthright from the b n p scum.

I disagree to an extent, because I know a very large number of people who are very patriotic, and I can count them as friends. One of my best and oldest friends is tattoed from head to foot in images like (English) roses, British Bulldogs, St George's crosses, and a couple of quotes from Churchill. He's certainly Nationalistic and abhors many of the negative qualities that some ethnic communities have brought. However, rather than this being the main issue, he abhors many of the negative qualities that many English people bring to society too, because rather than discriminate on account of the colour of someone's skin, he discriminates on account of how much of a twaat you are. In his opinion, he is a patriot. He cares for our country and hates anything that makes us weaker or less competent as a country, be it sponging karnts claiming dole when they are working to a terrorist working to harm those who abide in this country, he loathes them all. In my opinion, you can't say fairer than that.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Christ, Leicester Bee goes on a bit sometimes but its refreshing to read what he has to say.. Is he offended? No..

You're right, I'm not. I'm more offended by being told that I go on a bit sometimes!

 

[WarrenBee]

You're right, I'm not. I'm more offended by being told that I go on a bit sometimes!

Leicester,next time you buy a copy of TITS from him give him a slap.

 

[rebus]

Nonsense.

It's perfectly possible to hold racist views without thinking that you do. And thus it's perfectly possible to say or do something racist without you thinking that it is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=covert

[em]adj 1: secret or hidden; not openly practiced or engaged in or shown or avowed; "covert actions by the CIA"; "covert funding for the rebels"[/em]

Thiat is what covert means. Please take note. What you are referring to is "ignorance".

I'm sick of this thread and am seriously considering getting a flag made so as AB says, we can reclaim the cross of St.George. We're not going to take it from the Nazis, but from idiotic left-wingers who think any form of patrotism surrounding England must be stamped on. It will displayed in the paddock and woe betide anyone trying to take it down.

What is the world coming too? Celebrate St.Patrick's day until you are blue in the face but don't even think about doing the same for St.George.

 

[Wee Dave]

It's either racist or it isn't

Excuse the pun, but it's this black-or-white comment that I was referring to. And anyway, bigots may not have heard of the word 'semantics', but they're perfectly capable of putting a bit of double meaning into something.

I couldn't give a sh*t about the flag itself either way, or what's written on it, and neither could most on here, I suspect.

This discussion is turning into one about language, principle, and left-vs-right. Words on a flag they may be, but the length of this thread is testament to the fact that not everyone sees the world in the same way.

 

[California Bee]

The two points are very different (did you know the history of the word 'nitty-gritty'? It's not very nice).

To make up an extreme example, if some bloke doesn't think it's racist to get angry when his daughter marries a black guy, does that mean that it isn't?

I'm not being moralistic about "racism" - merely saying that if we define it as prejudice against someone because of their race then it's surely perfectly possible for it to exist without the person being aware of it. Everyone has their prejudices.

The definition of a racist is
"noun: a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others". If you don't hold that belief then you are not a racist. If other people think you are racist because you get angry when your black daughter marries a white guy (or vice versa) it does not follow necessarily that the cause of your anger is the belief that black people are superior to white (or vice versa). It may be because you think her new husband is a violent person, a drunk or has some other characteristic of which you disapprove and which you feel might be threatening to your daughter's well-being.

 

[Edmundo]

did you know the history of the word 'nitty-gritty'? It's not very nice

From this link.

[Q] From Helen Norris: “Any ideas on the origins of the expression nitty-gritty? I heard today a rather horrible suggestion that it referred to the debris left in the bottom of slave ships after their voyages, once the slaves remaining alive had been removed.”

[A] This may belong in the same line of folklore which holds that a picnic was a slave lynching party. There is a slight link, in that nitty-gritty was indeed originally a Black American English expression, and some people guess that nitty-gritty is a euphemism for sh*tty, which also suggests a relevance. However, it’s recorded in print only from the 1950s, and never directly with this sense.

Dr Jonathan Lighter, in the Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, records the first example from 1956: “You’ll find nobody comes down to the nitty-gritty when it calls for namin’ things for what they are”. As it is here fully formed, and has the now customary sense of the fundamental issues, the heart of the matter, or the most important aspects of some situation, it had by then probably already been in use for some while (I know of two people who claim to have come across it in the 1920s). But it is inconceivable that it should have been around since slave-ship days without somebody writing it down.

Its origins are elusive. One explanation is that it is a reduplication—using the same mechanism that has given us namby-pamby and itsy-bitsy—of the standard English word gritty. This has the literal sense of containing or being covered with grit, but figuratively means showing courage and resolve, so the link is plausible, and if it is not the direct origin may have influenced it. It has also been suggested (in a 1974 issue of American Speech, the journal of the American Dialect Society) that nits refers to head lice and grits to the corn cereal. None of these are supported by any firm evidence.

 

[pompeybee]

I can't believe the naivety that some of you are displaying.
The slogans on the Oldham flag are covertly expressing racism by mischievously making irrelevant,'patriotic' statements.
If they were to show an overtly racist message,such as 'proud not be to be Asian',they would be bang to rights.Therefore,they express an apparently innocuous and positive sentiment, and challenge the rest of us to a semantic argument.
Finally,to dismiss objections to covert racism as being PC,is a corruption of that expression,and furthermore,shows that you have learned nothing from the history of the effects of racist propaganda.

More elegantly put than I could have done. I'm a bit late to this one as the first thing I did when I got home on Saturday was not to post on here but to send an e-mail to the club as follows:

"It was good to see that there was at least some attempt to deal with the large "National Front" flag which some Oldham fans brought to the game today. The slogans on it made it clearly something different from the usual St George's flags.

However, why did it take until half time? Why were they allowed to have it back and get it out again?

Is dealing with this stuff the responsibility of the stewards or the police? (I saw that both were involved.) Don't they have powers to confiscate things like this and/or to eject those responsible for them? Is this really any different to racist chanting, which I thought was an offence?

I suppose it's hardly a surprise that some Oldham fans are involved with far right groups, given that Oldham is known to be a centre of NF activity. So you would have thought the police/stewards would have been prepared and could have dealt with it promptly. I don't suppose it's the first time it's been displayed.

Any chance of BFC expressing their concern to Oldham, just to show that 'Kick Racism out of Football' isn't just about wearing a t-shirt at a game once a season. If Brentford can't do it, given the ethnic mix in the club's catchment area and the number of black players on the team, who will?"

I've had an acknowledgement from Peter Gilham and look forward to a reply from Mr Hill.

I'd never thought that I'd be in such a minority on this, and frankly that leaves me a bit worried. My wife who was at the game with me (yeah, I'm a leftie and I bring my wife to the football) couldn't believe what she was seeing. Nine times out of ten we can go to games and see none of this unreconstructed 70s nonsense, but when you get things like this, the reaction to any woman match official, the behaviour of some people at away games (eg Southampton last year) etc it really makes you wonder.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Oh get over yourself. lol

Funniest thing I've read for a while, your letter. lol lol lol

large "National Front" flag

Good grief.

 

[Banana]

the behaviour of some people at away games (eg Southampton last year) etc .

Are you talking about the stewards chucking out Brentford supporters?

 

[Dangerous]

More elegantly put than I could have done. I'm a bit late to this one as the first thing I did when I got home on Saturday was not to post on here but to send an e-mail to the club as follows:

"It was good to see that there was at least some attempt to deal with the large "National Front" flag which some Oldham fans brought to the game today. The slogans on it made it clearly something different from the usual St George's flags.

However, why did it take until half time? Why were they allowed to have it back and get it out again?

Is dealing with this stuff the responsibility of the stewards or the police? (I saw that both were involved.) Don't they have powers to confiscate things like this and/or to eject those responsible for them? Is this really any different to racist chanting, which I thought was an offence?

I suppose it's hardly a surprise that some Oldham fans are involved with far right groups, given that Oldham is known to be a centre of NF activity. So you would have thought the police/stewards would have been prepared and could have dealt with it promptly. I don't suppose it's the first time it's been displayed.

Any chance of BFC expressing their concern to Oldham, just to show that 'Kick Racism out of Football' isn't just about wearing a t-shirt at a game once a season. If Brentford can't do it, given the ethnic mix in the club's catchment area and the number of black players on the team, who will?"

I've had an acknowledgement from Peter Gilham and look forward to a reply from Mr Hill.

I'd never thought that I'd be in such a minority on this, and frankly that leaves me a bit worried. My wife who was at the game with me (yeah, I'm a leftie and I bring my wife to the football) couldn't believe what she was seeing. Nine times out of ten we can go to games and see none of this unreconstructed 70s nonsense, but when you get things like this, the reaction to any woman match official, the behaviour of some people at away games (eg Southampton last year) etc it really makes you wonder.

Please support another team I am so embarrassed that Brentford have supporters like you?.Pompey is not to far away from you.
I am defo going to get a flag with that slogan on and if I am accused of Racism I will fight you in court and on the beeches if necessary.

 

[Dangerous]

Pompey Bee are you going to write a letter of complaint to the FA about one of the headline advertisers on our official website It reads out??
Rule Brittania.

 

[Wee Dave]

Please support another team I am so embarrassed that Brentford have supporters like you?

I bet he's devastated

 

[alexinho]

Please support another team I am so embarrassed that Brentford have supporters like you?.Pompey is not to far away from you.
I am defo going to get a flag with that slogan on and if I am accused of Racism I will fight you in court and on the beeches if necessary.

You can't even spell beaches (although possibly you were planning some kind of tree based defence, in which case I apologise), I'd love to see you make an absolute arse of yourself in court.

 

[alexinho]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=covert

[em]adj 1: secret or hidden; not openly practiced or engaged in or shown or avowed; "covert actions by the CIA"; "covert funding for the rebels"[/em]

Thiat is what covert means. Please take note. What you are referring to is "ignorance".

I'm sick of this thread and am seriously considering getting a flag made so as AB says, we can reclaim the cross of St.George. We're not going to take it from the Nazis, but from idiotic left-wingers who think any form of patrotism surrounding England must be stamped on. It will displayed in the paddock and woe betide anyone trying to take it down.

What is the world coming too? Celebrate St.Patrick's day until you are blue in the face but don't even think about doing the same for St.George.

You really embarassed yourself with that post too. Nobody is trying to stamp out patriotism. People disagreed with the slogan on the flag. Nobody has said the flag itself without the slogan was unacceptable.

 

[Dangerous]

.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

This is a very silly thread now. It's not like it was Brentford fans with it, was it. In a couple of weeks time we'll beat Oldham at Boundary Park and that'll be the last we see of them this season. They might or might not be racists but quite frankly, that's their problem.

 

[Dangerous]

.

 

[Brentford Bob]

More elegantly put than I could have done. I'm a bit late to this one as the first thing I did when I got home on Saturday was not to post on here but to send an e-mail to the club as follows:

"It was good to see that there was at least some attempt to deal with the large "National Front" flag which some Oldham fans brought to the game today. The slogans on it made it clearly something different from the usual St George's flags.

However, why did it take until half time? Why were they allowed to have it back and get it out again?

Is dealing with this stuff the responsibility of the stewards or the police? (I saw that both were involved.) Don't they have powers to confiscate things like this and/or to eject those responsible for them? Is this really any different to racist chanting, which I thought was an offence?

I suppose it's hardly a surprise that some Oldham fans are involved with far right groups, given that Oldham is known to be a centre of NF activity. So you would have thought the police/stewards would have been prepared and could have dealt with it promptly. I don't suppose it's the first time it's been displayed.

Any chance of BFC expressing their concern to Oldham, just to show that 'Kick Racism out of Football' isn't just about wearing a t-shirt at a game once a season. If Brentford can't do it, given the ethnic mix in the club's catchment area and the number of black players on the team, who will?"

I've had an acknowledgement from Peter Gilham and look forward to a reply from Mr Hill.

I'd never thought that I'd be in such a minority on this, and frankly that leaves me a bit worried. My wife who was at the game with me (yeah, I'm a leftie and I bring my wife to the football) couldn't believe what she was seeing. Nine times out of ten we can go to games and see none of this unreconstructed 70s nonsense, but when you get things like this, the reaction to any woman match official, the behaviour of some people at away games (eg Southampton last year) etc it really makes you wonder.

lol rofl lol rofl

Best post in the history of the GPG.

 

[WarrenBee]

More elegantly put than I could have done. I'm a bit late to this one as the first thing I did when I got home on Saturday was not to post on here but to send an e-mail to the club as follows:

"It was good to see that there was at least some attempt to deal with the large "National Front" flag which some Oldham fans brought to the game today. The slogans on it made it clearly something different from the usual St George's flags.

However, why did it take until half time? Why were they allowed to have it back and get it out again?

Is dealing with this stuff the responsibility of the stewards or the police? (I saw that both were involved.) Don't they have powers to confiscate things like this and/or to eject those responsible for them? Is this really any different to racist chanting, which I thought was an offence?

I suppose it's hardly a surprise that some Oldham fans are involved with far right groups, given that Oldham is known to be a centre of NF activity. So you would have thought the police/stewards would have been prepared and could have dealt with it promptly. I don't suppose it's the first time it's been displayed.

Any chance of BFC expressing their concern to Oldham, just to show that 'Kick Racism out of Football' isn't just about wearing a t-shirt at a game once a season. If Brentford can't do it, given the ethnic mix in the club's catchment area and the number of black players on the team, who will?"

I've had an acknowledgement from Peter Gilham and look forward to a reply from Mr Hill.

I'd never thought that I'd be in such a minority on this, and frankly that leaves me a bit worried. My wife who was at the game with me (yeah, I'm a leftie and I bring my wife to the football) couldn't believe what she was seeing. Nine times out of ten we can go to games and see none of this unreconstructed 70s nonsense, but when you get things like this, the reaction to any woman match official, the behaviour of some people at away games (eg Southampton last year) etc it really makes you wonder.

Didn't think to ask about the future of the club by any chance then?

 

[rebus]

You really embarassed yourself with that post too. Nobody is trying to stamp out patriotism. People disagreed with the slogan on the flag. Nobody has said the flag itself without the slogan was unacceptable.

I take it you're a left-wing idiot then. Well, if the cap fits...

 

[rebus]

I saw on a train this morning an advert for Fulham's Xmas home games. One of the bullet points as part of a rhyme was:

"11 whites a winning"

Anyone find that offensive.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I saw on a train this morning an advert for Fulham's Xmas home game. One of the bullet points as part of a rhyme was:

"11 whites a winning"

Anyone find that offensive.

Everyone should support Newcastle. A model for racial harmony. :love2:

 

[Edmundo]

I saw on a train this morning an advert for Fulham's Xmas home games. One of the bullet points as part of a rhyme was:

"11 whites a winning"

Anyone find that offensive.

An advert for Fulham? I find that extremely offensive!

 

[rebus]

An advert for Fulham? I find that extremely offensive!

 

[alexinho]

I take it you're a left-wing idiot then. Well, if the cap fits...

Can I thereby taking it that you are a drooling right wing Sun-reader with a lower than average IQ?

Let's not get into tedious stereotyping of each other's possible political views - we disagree, it's not the end of the world. There is nothing innately left wing about what I have posted to you, regardless of whether you think that it makes me an idiot, and equally I am sure that you are not of lower than average intelligence.

 

[Dangerous]

.

 

[The H]

ah no mention of Oldham or a flag for 10 posts.. shall i split the thread into chit chat now :banana:

 

[rebus]

regardless of whether you think that it makes me an idiot, and equally I am sure that you are not of lower than average intelligence.

Correct.

 

[rebus]

ah no mention of Oldham or a flag for 10 posts.. shall i split the thread into chit chat now :banana:

:yes:

 

[Bigbee]

I saw on a train this morning an advert for Fulham's Xmas home games. One of the bullet points as part of a rhyme was:

"11 whites a winning"

Anyone find that offensive.

they'd have to drop Poppodroppopopp and a couple of others then .

 

[good minton]

Can I thereby taking it that you are a drooling right wing Sun-reader with a lower than average IQ?

Let's not get into tedious stereotyping of each other's possible political views - we disagree, it's not the end of the world. There is nothing innately left wing about what I have posted to you, regardless of whether you think that it makes me an idiot, and equally I am sure that you are not of lower than average intelligence.

hahahahaha he is of lower than average intelligence. Do you see that, by posting the above, you have made a fool of yourself. lol lol lol

 

[rebus]

hahahahaha he is of lower than average intelligence. Do you see that, by posting the above, you have made a fool of yourself. lol lol lol

I've been rumbled.

 

[richy]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=covert
What is the world coming too? Celebrate St.Patrick's day until you are blue in the face but don't even think about doing the same for St.George.

I agree with you 100% on this but I would say that it is not the "PC brigade" who deny us this pleasure but the far right organisations that abuse the flag in the first place?

 

[good minton]

Abuse the flag ? i'm sure that the IRA fly their tricolour with pride and yet no one denies them a celebratory day, in fact the mayor of london positively encourages it.
so do you really think it's not the PC brigade who deny us good english folk ?

 

[TW3Bee]

I didn't hear the radio programme when the Brentford supporter complained about 'that' flag.
What response did it get from other listeners?