Andy Scott
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beeeehive
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Andy Scott
They did against Bristol Rovers and Hartlepool and so would we be having such a strong debate with another 4 points in the table.
We have a problem which needs addressing and urgently. we have a big squad, which in paper looks good enough to be in a much better position after 9 league games, There have been glimpses of their ability within some games (mainly cup ones) and the set up and game play were the same as the others we were crap in. So getting the glimpses more consistently is the key. Opposition managers will easily identify that we try and get the ball to Weston as often as possible and can close that space down, along with teh right side too when played wide. They simply fill the midfield area and generally let little or no room to get ball out wide. So anothe game plan is required and our big squad has akey missing if needing to change thae game centrally. If we could get Simpson back fit then I think he could fill a void playing just behind Alexander or Cort and making later runs from a more central very attacking midfield position within a 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 line up. Until then Dave possibly could play it with O'Connor & Bean or even Wood behind him. It seems to me that if Weston is stopped or plays poorly then the side generally are poor.
Couldn't agree more about the formation change and trying to play football between their defence and midfield. Didn't catch the Rovers game but heard we were dominate but against Hartlepool I thought we were very very very dire and not creative at all!
I think Dave could be quite a threat in an attacking role infornt of O'Connor and Bean. I don't see the need for a panic button just yet, we could smash Charlton 4-0 this weekend!
Guildford Bee
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Andy Scott
This does worry me. Someone needs to send AS the video for the Hartlepool game because we certainly did not create chances.
I would add Walsall to the above list though, we should've had a hatful.
Andy Scott
When only the season ticket holders and away supporters will be coming through the turnstiles!
Castleview
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Andy Scott
Dead right! Take into account we drew 11 (I think) games at home and that equates to 22 dropped points. Hardly the stuff to mount a serious promotion challenge or bring the fans back.
Andy Scott
I was responding to missing loads of "sitters". We had 3 that I would consider sitters in that game and in the ratio sitters to chances that is loads imho.
LingfieldBee
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brooks
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Guildford Bee
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Andy Scott
And we also played superbly against Carlisle (twice), Norwich, Charlton, Leeds, Huddersfield, Gillingham to name but a few. You can't pick and choose to try and illustrate your point.
NorthamptonBee
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Andy Scott
Southampton twice, however doesn't it back up my idea that we are either brilliant or sh*te. A few messy wins wouldn't go amiss, people keep typing that it's been like this for 50 yeard but in all my time supporting I can't honestly remember as many sh*te performances so often with brilliant ones in and around them.
bonafidebee
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Andy Scott
One of abee's rules is "those who get you in the sh1t aren't the ones to get you out if it". I do so hope we don't have to see the cure for this carried out and AS canned as it will mean AS has failed and Brentford are in deep trouble. I'd give AS until the end of October and see where we are. Performances and results must have improved by then. Otherwise the axe should fall.
Andy Scott
He's defintely standing at the railings looking at the thin ice if not yet actually on it!
He has until Xmas probably to show if he has been a lucky manager or this is a blip. With the squad he has assembled it is more than just a coincidence that we are rock bottom. Something is amiss. We have the highest quality of players I would argue since the Coppell days. I do believe AS is a good manager and whether it is purely tactics that are wrong, behind the scenes is wrong or a combination of both this is a real test for him that is for sure that could make or break him. :grey:
I really, really don't understand the Lee situation. This is the main thing that scares me about AS and that the possibility he doesn't have the full backing of the players is a real possibility. I don't think there is any evidence of mutiny but it can't go down well with the group if a player puts in a hero's performance and then gets dropped. I would also have thought Ben Hamer would be a little bit embarrassed to be playing at the moment!
I am not saying that a trained monkey could get results with our squad but it is an achievement that we have been so bad! I think most of us "Armchair" managers could do something with our squad.
He has until Xmas probably to show if he has been a lucky manager or this is a blip. With the squad he has assembled it is more than just a coincidence that we are rock bottom. Something is amiss. We have the highest quality of players I would argue since the Coppell days. I do believe AS is a good manager and whether it is purely tactics that are wrong, behind the scenes is wrong or a combination of both this is a real test for him that is for sure that could make or break him. :grey:
I really, really don't understand the Lee situation. This is the main thing that scares me about AS and that the possibility he doesn't have the full backing of the players is a real possibility. I don't think there is any evidence of mutiny but it can't go down well with the group if a player puts in a hero's performance and then gets dropped. I would also have thought Ben Hamer would be a little bit embarrassed to be playing at the moment!
I am not saying that a trained monkey could get results with our squad but it is an achievement that we have been so bad! I think most of us "Armchair" managers could do something with our squad.
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wayfarer172
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Andy Scott
Another thing that bothers me is that he said that Nicky Forster is playing through the pain barrier. If I were NF i'd get myself sorted out first and formost. Of course we dont know what the problem is with his stomach. I just hope that whatever it is it's not serious.
wayfarer172
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Guildford Bee
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Andy Scott
If we are going to get rid of him then we have to have a replacement all but lined up. When Downes went, MA was brought in within days. When Leroy was sacked it was an absolute farce and we had to wait about six weeks before the board offered to the bloke who already had it and hadn't won a game. Wenger probably wouldn't have kept us up that season but all the fannying about killed us.
I think AS has earned another six weeks to turn things round but if he hasn't within that time, he should be gone by mid-November with the new man in by the start of December at the latest.
Andy Scott
if he is to go xmas will be to late especially if the trend carries on, we will be relgated before april! if he is to go and i hope he does not and turns it around AS has the next 4 league games!
Kingston Bee
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Low End Bee
...and sitting
Kingston Bee
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Andy Scott
That is why AS will probably be given until Xmas to turn it around. If we have to replace him there will be plenty of other managers available who have been sacked from their current jobs for failing.....
brooks
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The Pipe
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Andy Scott
Ok got the latest defeat out of the system and begining to think with clarity.
We have played a few games where we have actually looked threatening but failed to take the opportunities that have presented themselves as unfortunately we seem to be toothless up front. Charlie is a real nuisance but his scoring/opportunity ratio is not top drawer. Aleaxander puts himself about but even Milwall supporters told us he was not prolific. Cort has class but fitmness is an issue, Forster very few chances to play and now age and injuries taking toll. That does not leave a lot in the kitty.
Midfield are workmanlike, Dave is good but not creative and sometimes vanishes. Kev is a battler whilst Beano is a booking waiting to happen. Hunt dont think has played.
Wingers, Myles causes problems but is an in and out player, Wood has energy but lacks the final part of his game, Adams has yet to impress, saunders is so out of favour that he might as well pack his bags. Simpson the only one who really looks the part is injured.
Defence Spillane, Karleigh Pim and Woodman are all doing their jobs pretty well whilst both keepers now look the part.
it seems therefore that we have the defence sorted but that is all and despite the comings and goings in the summer the 2 areas which caused concern last term have not been resolved with a midfield that is non creative and a forwardline that is seemingly toothless.
Scott now has a bigger problem with all the injuries in trying to sort out a system with the players he has left. If I was in his shoes I think I would tear up all the previous plans and systems and look for which creative players he has available and try and cobble something together from that. he would be as well to let Sam Saunders have a free role behind a forward possibly Weston, put Wood on the left and Adams on the right and let Bean and dave or kev try and hold the middle..
If he does thae same as before then he will likely get the same result therefore if he wants to keep his job its worth his while going for all out attack which will at least mean the game will be exciting.
He is not, I am sure a stupid man and he must be as aware as anyone of the discontent at the club so perhaps from the disasterous position we are in he and the team can rise phoenix like from the ashes and perhaps by mistake find the formula that will start to acheive success.
If there are no changes to the way he serts out the team then I guess it will finally convince the uncommitted that we have a manager who has, for whatever reason, hit the wall.
We have played a few games where we have actually looked threatening but failed to take the opportunities that have presented themselves as unfortunately we seem to be toothless up front. Charlie is a real nuisance but his scoring/opportunity ratio is not top drawer. Aleaxander puts himself about but even Milwall supporters told us he was not prolific. Cort has class but fitmness is an issue, Forster very few chances to play and now age and injuries taking toll. That does not leave a lot in the kitty.
Midfield are workmanlike, Dave is good but not creative and sometimes vanishes. Kev is a battler whilst Beano is a booking waiting to happen. Hunt dont think has played.
Wingers, Myles causes problems but is an in and out player, Wood has energy but lacks the final part of his game, Adams has yet to impress, saunders is so out of favour that he might as well pack his bags. Simpson the only one who really looks the part is injured.
Defence Spillane, Karleigh Pim and Woodman are all doing their jobs pretty well whilst both keepers now look the part.
it seems therefore that we have the defence sorted but that is all and despite the comings and goings in the summer the 2 areas which caused concern last term have not been resolved with a midfield that is non creative and a forwardline that is seemingly toothless.
Scott now has a bigger problem with all the injuries in trying to sort out a system with the players he has left. If I was in his shoes I think I would tear up all the previous plans and systems and look for which creative players he has available and try and cobble something together from that. he would be as well to let Sam Saunders have a free role behind a forward possibly Weston, put Wood on the left and Adams on the right and let Bean and dave or kev try and hold the middle..
If he does thae same as before then he will likely get the same result therefore if he wants to keep his job its worth his while going for all out attack which will at least mean the game will be exciting.
He is not, I am sure a stupid man and he must be as aware as anyone of the discontent at the club so perhaps from the disasterous position we are in he and the team can rise phoenix like from the ashes and perhaps by mistake find the formula that will start to acheive success.
If there are no changes to the way he serts out the team then I guess it will finally convince the uncommitted that we have a manager who has, for whatever reason, hit the wall.
nick logan
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Andy Scott
We didn't any long balls last night. Or very few anyway. I think we tend to do that late on when not winning. We normally start by getting it out wide at least.
maddogging
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Andy Scott
Nick, unfortunately for me you have summed up our failings in one small post. This is exactly what managers get there scouts to do, and this is exactly what they wouild be told.
Andy Scott
I agree. However, there is a far cry from knowing how a team play and then stopping them doing it. I think the problem is we are not getting enough out of our own forwards, not that people are stopping us.
burnhambee
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Andy Scott
Good post that . But i wouldn't start swopping things too much , lets keep it tight and try and nick a few points and take it from there
nick logan
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Andy Scott
I agree, we should be causing teams more problems ala Hull game with the pace out wide and the forwards we have.
Womble
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Andy Scott
Don't things change quickly in football,this time last week we we're raving about how we beat Everton now it's all doom and gloom.Is Scott to blame or the players ? I don't know as I've only been to 2 games this season.
clad1
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Andy Scott
The posts on this thread are very interesting. I have managed many staff over the years, and dealt with the general public for a long time. Andy is, as has been said many times, a novice manager. I think the main problem is that he was still learning as an assistant when he was suddenly in charge as caretaker and did well. Maybe just lucky, but he was definitely giving it his all. Then he was given the job and carried on doing his best. Because he was firing on all cylinders and lucky we all thouht he was doing great. As a resul he probably became convinced of his own greatness, and possibly arrogant as well thinking he could do no wrong. Fairly normal behaviour given the circumstances. Now things are going wrong. He needs support and tutoring, which unfortunately he hasn't been able to get as he is now in charge instead of still learning his trade. The solution is difficult. In my opinion heneeds someone connected with the club, possibly abee or markybee should have a heart to heart with him, explain how everyone feels and suggest, strongly that if he wants to remain as manager and to have a career in management anywhere, he needs to think about how he was when he took over and use that and his experience since to become more flexible in his approach to tactics and sealing with the players. Andy is not stupid, although he may seem so because he has become hidebound and intractable. If he is willing to change he should be given the chance. If he isn't willing then he should be informed that his autocratic type of management is more suited to non-league and folow Paul Gascoigne and manage there. But if he is willing to change then he should state so in one of his interviews and be given the chance and be supported by every Bees fan who want the club to do well. Although the lay-offs seem unlikely now success is still possible with luck, flexibility, ability and support. Up the BEES!!!
mhead bee
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Andy Scott
I know a lot of people on here seem to think that a run of defeats automatically mean you sack a manager who has significant time left on his contract, but just to offer my opinion I do not think the current board are in the same mindset.
I think they are far more inclined to let him dig us out of this. The reality is if our players play to potential we are going to be to 7 contenders, if we let AS stay we will be mid table. If we get rid of him and bring someone else in we will be mid table.
Personally I would stick with him as he is not a downes, rosenior or butcher. Under those three I looked at the squad and could not see how we were ever going to get out of the mess. I look at AS and the squad and think, ffs chaps, sort it out. I do not feel we are doomed or heading for relegation just yet and we have plenty of ammo in the barrell, ,we just need to sort it out.
mhead bee
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hounslowbeeforever
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Andy Scott
22% of fans on here think AS should go, I'd rather see the 22% of fans go.
Keep going AS, you have my FULL support.
Keep going AS, you have my FULL support.
mhead bee
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Andy Scott
CM, Alexander and Forster all have 1 in 2 ratios throughout their careers. You would be hard pushed to find 3 strikers in any squad in this division who could say the same.
Brentford 4 Life
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mundee4england
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Andy Scott
The key to this is though that he MUST change. I would always support giving a manager time rather than rushing into a decision, however when things aren't working it needs to be acknowledged and changes made.
At the moment AS keeps coming out with the same stuff after another bad performance! He should be saying.... I am going to sit down with TB and look at how we are doing things, although we are well organised we are struggling to break teams down and I intend to look at our approach given the players available to us.
If he came out and said this, or at least something slightly less open, I think the fans would give him a little more credit, and probably time! Arrogance is not a good look when you are bottom of the league!
Andy Scott
This lark about loyalty tho and what hes done before...
Its just hit me that if your not good at the job your doing you dont keep em on because they are "supposed" to be loyal...
This is football and many managers, players etc will come and go.
I will not... Loyal Supporters !!!!
Its just hit me that if your not good at the job your doing you dont keep em on because they are "supposed" to be loyal...
This is football and many managers, players etc will come and go.
I will not... Loyal Supporters !!!!
Brentford 4 Life
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Andy Scott
Someone teach AS the concept of substitutes, you dont just have to bring them on with 5 minutes to go you can bring them on as soon as they are required which is generally about 60-65 minutes into the game.
Andy Scott
No they dont - Forster has scored 188 in 600 (nearly 1 in 3), Alexander 118 in 416 (nearly 1 in 3.5) and Charlie has 91 in 248 (1 in 2.7).
There are very few strikers who get near in 1 in 2 ratio thoughout careers.
Andy Scott
Forsters problem is rumoured to be a hernia.
AS's credibility is hardly enhanced when four days after saying Forster can only play 20-25 minutes he gives him his first full match of the season in a
wide right wing role, when we have three right wingers on the bench !?!?
Some definite miracles to be worked if this is going to be turned round with the current injury situation.
It would appear that despite all the hype about two players signed for every position, that the key man is Robbie Simpson, a loanee whose contributions
in earlier matches masked the deficiencies elsewhere in the team.
AS's credibility is hardly enhanced when four days after saying Forster can only play 20-25 minutes he gives him his first full match of the season in a
wide right wing role, when we have three right wingers on the bench !?!?
Some definite miracles to be worked if this is going to be turned round with the current injury situation.
It would appear that despite all the hype about two players signed for every position, that the key man is Robbie Simpson, a loanee whose contributions
in earlier matches masked the deficiencies elsewhere in the team.
Andy Scott
We don't even have "loyal supporters" ..as has been proved over the years. Maybe this is us kicking and screaming our way into modern football with the instant success or nothing mentality that is prevelant in the higher leagues.
Andy Scott
I wouldnt mind AS staying but he has to change something we have virtually the same starting 11 and formation as the first game of the season and 9 games in and it is still the same and still the same outcome, he keeps going on about changing things up so why dont he use the squad because we do have a good squad just look at some of the quality we now have but if AS doesnt change something soon he will be gone I would say the next two or three games personally.
clad1
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Andy Scott
lol.
Thanks for that.
I am public sector so I guess it must have been a 'freudian' slip.
I have noticed on this thread that whether you are an AS fan or not, everyne seems to agree that he needs to change tactics, attitude or both. I hope he does, not just for his sake but for the club's. I believe he can become good given time and the right tutelage. Unfortunately that may be at our expense. Something all Bees fans should remember also is that Brentford NEVER do things the easy way. Keep the faith. Up the Bees!!
Low End Bee
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Andy Scott
I will substitute 'hoofball' for 'wingball' which is more fitting and not much prettier.
kevalutonbee
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wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Andy Scott
i'm sure the football club would love that.
800 less coming through the gates. I've had enough of sh*t football, 1 game in 3 or 4 we can turn it on, it's not good enough and the buck stops with AS, it's his style of play the players are playing, our squad is better than what he is telling them to do. We have shown v Hull, Sheffield and ROvers that we can attack (ok not many goals) but games v Carlisle, Rochdale, Hartlepool, Orient etc were absolute sh*te.IMO AS has 2 games, Charlton and Oldham, 4 or 6 points is a must, otherwise a little gap starts to open from the bottom 4 to 20th-16th, you all say give to christmas, what if we're 15 points adrift? too late by then. If i didn't have an ST i'd be like 2006 under Leroy, pick and choose my games, if i can be bothered, sh*t football brings in poor crowds.
Everton was a great one off, we matched them for the last 90 minutes of the 120, but just think what the score could've been if they had a goalscorer (just like us!!) take that and the other cup matches out of the equation, we've scored 4 times in 9 matches!!
AAARRGGGHHHHH !!!
nick logan
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ChinaBee
The boys are back in town
Andy Scott
I think it is time for TB to stand up and be counted, let him do the post match interview on Saturday and hear what he has to say. He is a tried and tested coach and I want to hear his views.
ChinaBee
The boys are back in town
Andy Scott
We do
Ignore him he doesn;t have a clue, we have too many loyal supporters at times
Andy Scott
Some very interesting posts, and some good points made.
Andy is a young, inexperienced manager. Therefore he is learning.
Is it worth sticking by Mr Scott, and bringing in a consultant, (eg Coppell, or someone who's done it all before with a high level of tactical knowledge)
Therefore Andy has somebody there to get appropriate and respected advice, which will only help him grow as a manager. Tactical help is needed here, we definately have the players to compete.
Just an idea, am I being stupid?
Andy is a young, inexperienced manager. Therefore he is learning.
Is it worth sticking by Mr Scott, and bringing in a consultant, (eg Coppell, or someone who's done it all before with a high level of tactical knowledge)
Therefore Andy has somebody there to get appropriate and respected advice, which will only help him grow as a manager. Tactical help is needed here, we definately have the players to compete.
Just an idea, am I being stupid?
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