Enough is Enough

[Guildford Bee]

To try and guess what you're thinking, the club will be more inclined to resist all offers?

I'd say so. It's looking increasingly likely that we'll be in a relegation battle for the second half of the season. If we'd have been mid-table with little chance of going up or down - ala last season - he would almost certainly have gone. Now there's just far too much to lose by letting him go even if we do get offered stupid money.

 

[Easter 1959]

Was today better or worse than being beaten 7-0 by Peterborough . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I'd say so. It's looking increasingly likely that we'll be in a relegation battle for the second half of the season. If we'd have been mid-table with little chance of going up or down - ala last season - he would al it's certainly have gone. Now there's just far too much to lose by letting him go even if we do get offered stupid money.

Makes sense. Let's hope that Smith was right about his assessment that he won't do a Tarkowski then - I suspect his agent might see £££££££s.

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

Was today better or worse than being beaten 7-0 by Peterborough . . . . . . . . . . . .

It wasn't as bad as that, purely because we are playing at a higher level against very good players. But it was certainly up there on the list of shocking performances since that dreadful day in Peterborough.

 

[Bill Benn]

Personally think Judge will never plan again for the Bees. He's gone in January.

I really hope your right if he's responsible for planning our recent games.

 

[Easter 1959]

It wasn't as bad as that, purely because we are playing at a higher level against very good players. But it was certainly up there on the list of shocking performances since that dreadful day in Peterborough.

I would agree with that; especially as I believe that none of the Norwich Strikers got down on their hands and knees to push the ball over the line with their head.

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

I would agree with that; especially as I believe that none of the Norwich Strikers got down on their hands and knees to push the ball over the line with their head.

Yes, that as well.

 

[IslandBee]

what is the purpose of this thread.

.

Keep firing indiscriminately in all directions and see if you hit anything!!!

 

[grutter]

Keep firing indiscriminately in all directions and see if you hit anything!!!

Sounds more like coaching instructions to our midfield.

 

[Indian Bee]

I will be totally amazed if Hogan is still our player on 1st Feb. I also don't think we will have seen either Judge or Henry by then. And by then we could be in a whole heap of poo.

I noted earlier In thread (in sept) that I honestly believe Hogan believes that come January 17 is his sufficient payback towards Brentford for the medical care we provided as sufficient - Hogan is ambitious and wants premiership football next season regardless. Brentford will get an offer 10m plus for him - there is no doubt about that come January but if we are in a relegation battle I hope we resist.

 

[Frothybaby]

I have to say I felt worse last season after the Blackburn game. Let's see what happens next week. We can't do anything until January other than sack Smith and I don't think that's sensible. I will be delighted to stay in the Championship but it doesn't stop me dreaming (and betting!) on promotion. The midfield isn't working every week. Smith hopefully can see what's happening. It was a must win for Norwich manager, they had to deliver. They had quality in midfield. My big concern is the use of substitutes as I don't understand them and why so late. Smith needs the season to show what he's about. He came good last season, I believe (hope) he'll do it again and that it's not a disaster. If Smith had the choice of all players would the team and formation look a lot different?

 

[nodsmate]

Let's bring in some of the B team next week, along with kk. Things need shaking up. Come on Smith, What have you got to loose!.

Show us some passion, and maybe it will filter through to the players.

 

[wanderer paul]

Let's bring in some of the B team next week, along with kk. Things need shaking up. Come on Smith, What have you got to loose!.

Show us some passion, and maybe it will filter through to the players.

Have you seen the B team recently? Which ones to come in and for who?

I'll name one, James Ferry, and that is probably it.

 

[hanworthbee]

I've seen two B team games and imo none of them will ever make more then 5 appearances for us.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

I have to say I felt worse last season after the Blackburn game. Let's see what happens next week. We can't do anything until January other than sack Smith and I don't think that's sensible. I will be delighted to stay in the Championship but it doesn't stop me dreaming (and betting!) on promotion. The midfield isn't working every week. Smith hopefully can see what's happening. It was a must win for Norwich manager, they had to deliver. They had quality in midfield. My big concern is the use of substitutes as I don't understand them and why so late. Smith needs the season to show what he's about. He came good last season, I believe (hope) he'll do it again and that it's not a disaster. If Smith had the choice of all players would the team and formation look a lot different?

I am convinced we are in a relegation battle.

 

[sonofabee]

I am convinced we are in a relegation battle.

Agree with very few poor teams in this league.

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

I am convinced we are in a relegation battle.

Too right we are. And from the 4 teams of the 6 below us that we've played, we've taken 1 point. That is a huge concern.

 

[Taunton Bee]

Agree about the pressing. That was what worked so well at QPR. Today there was space everywhere.

How about 3-5-2 and flood the midfield as a consequence. Smith tried it once this season and was a vast improvement. Smith is tactically naïve(especially for this league) and should 'move on' at first opportunity.

 

[jbee]

Agree with very few poor teams in this league.

There are plenty of poor teams in this league. I would even say the majority. Unfortunately at the moment we're one of them.

 

[sonofabee]

There are plenty of poor teams in this league. I would even say the majority. Unfortunately at the moment we're one of them.

Can't agree there are plenty of poor teams but agree we are one of the weaker sides at the moment.

 

[Boon]

For next five games we are stuck with what we have.

Many more like today and the rot will well and truly set in

We are indeed but last week I thought the line up was bold and yes we lost but we had shape about the team and with a bit of luck we wouldn't have lost. Why didn't DS persevere? Dropping Bjaelland today and bringing in Josh on paper completely unbalance the team. I've no doubt Vibe has taken a bashing on here tonight but let's not forget he scored 14 last season but not from where he was playing today. Scott Hogan cam in at the end of last season and scored at will but only because he was getting service in part from KK who has to be a better option than Romaine? I think the players are there it just about finding the right 11.

 

[sonnyjim]

Time to start with deeds as well as words

EVERY PENNY MUST go on the playing squad in January. b***ocks to badges, b***ocks to gantries, b***ocks to marketing.

It must start, and it must start now and it must start here.

I can promise you one thing, there will be empty seats at the next match at GP....and not just because Marketing stopped selling tickets to away supporters.

We need change....and change now. Enough of the same old same old. I can set my watch by the substitutions....

Again?
Were you there fruit boy?

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

Again?
Were you there fruit boy?

I was there and don't disagree with what Banana says. Do you then?

 

[Grumpy old man]

However Smith is a man-manager. At least from what I have heard from those involved...[/QUOTE]

 

[Grumpy old man]

The trouble is he has no idea of tactics and team selection

 

[North London Bee]

It's all been said and the problems we face are self evident.

The players need to take a good look at themselves and the management team next week has to help them find some organisation, spirit, passion and inspiration from somewhere with confidence plummeting.

We simply have to win the battle against Burton otherwise we will be overpowered.

As for formations and team selections - I haven't really got a clue as nothing seems to be working and nobody is playing well.

We have five crucial games to get through before any meaningful changes can be made.

That's a month and hopefully a few points in the future.

There was evidently some straight talking done tonight and some harsh truths expressed. Hopefully they can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

 

[Pinner Bee]

I would agree with that; especially as I believe that none of the Norwich Strikers got down on their hands and knees to push the ball over the line with their head.

Sorry for pedancy but wasn't that the 1-5 debacle a few years before?

 

[AB]

Squad is just not good enough. We are reaping some of the benefits of the summer before last as well.

We've beaten at a canter the teams in second and third in the division. So I don't think we can say the players aren't capable of doing it- ironically so far of our 3 seasons at this level this is looking like the one in who we've had the most joy out of the top 6. The difference is that we're too often gash against most of the rest and this is potentially disastrous in a very even league where there still aren't many points between 4th and 23rd. I was sanguine about it at the time but it is telling now that we're the only team Rotherham, stranded at the bottom, have beaten.

It suggests to me that while we have the players to take apart Reading or Brighton there's something about how we play that lets Rotherham or Blackburn beat us without looking like they're having uncharacteristically freakish good games or us having a freak bad game.

We saw it with last season and can see it with Walsall's record but there's something about Smith that means he can only have feast or famine with the results and performances of his players. I don't know what it is but I think I've had enough of it.

I really hope those who thought I read too much into his "hope to remain" comment are wrong, not to prove me right (!) but because I trust in Benham et al to see the patterns and to understand whether the team is doing as it should on the basis of a realistic appraisal of the players. I'm no longer confident that Smith really knows what he wants players to be doing or which ones can do it after having given him the benefit of the doubt for our late season surge last season and some good results earlier this.

It's not my decision obviously but I'd hope he knew that he was looking at a P45 if we don't get a win and a good performance against Burton and even if we do, that that has to then be carried through.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

We've beaten at a canter the teams in second and third in the division. So I don't think we can say the players aren't capable of doing it- ironically so far of our 3 seasons at this level this is looking like the one in who we've had the most joy out of the top 6. The difference is that we're too often gash against most of the rest and this is potentially disastrous in a very even league where there still aren't many points between 4th and 23rd. I was sanguine about it at the time but it is telling now that we're the only team Rotherham, stranded at the bottom, have beaten.

It suggests to me that while we have the players to take apart Reading or Brighton there's something about how we play that lets Rotherham or Blackburn beat us without looking like they're having uncharacteristically freakish good games or us having a freak bad game.

We saw it with last season and can see it with Walsall's record but there's something about Smith that means he can only have feast or famine with the results and performances of his players. I don't know what it is but I think I've had enough of it.

I really hope those who thought I read too much into his "hope to remain" comment are wrong, not to prove me right (!) but because I trust in Benham et al to see the patterns and to understand whether the team is doing as it should on the basis of a realistic appraisal of the players. I'm no longer confident that Smith really knows what he wants players to be doing or which ones can do it after having given him the benefit of the doubt for our late season surge last season and some good results earlier this.

It's not my decision obviously but I'd hope he knew that he was looking at a P45 if we don't get a win and a good performance against Burton and even if we do, that that has to then be carried through.

I'm glad someone else is now mentioning the Rotherham match. Every time I have expressed frustration at this result, and suggested it's significance, I have been told to snap out of it in no uncertain terms.

 

[Wise old Bee]

I think we will hang on this season. The big danger is when we occupy mid-table in the Championship for a couple of years then we get relegated in our first season at LR. It would be classic Brentford.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Cant be bothered to look back for it but very early on this season there was a comment from Nightfly that looked pretty stupid 10 games ago but prescient now, regarding what this season could bring. The comments by Holloway don't seem that far off the truth anymore either.
I struggle to understand how after Preston and Reading we are now where we are.
I don't do away games but the comments on here are a pretty good guide to just how bad we were. Lionel Road will be one f****** great white elephant if we are in League 1 and that's where we're heading if we don't turn this around.
I understand our monetary constraints but we have decent enough players to maintain our position if they can be motivated to play to their potential. If we need to sell Hogan to get some funds to strengthen the midfield it might be worth considering.

 

[grutter]

Someone else made the point that our model involves signing players with potential and improving them. This is now clearly not happening and confidence is draining. Other than Hogan, who could we realistically sell at a profit? Coaching and motivating players has gone badly wrong somewhere.

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

Someone else made the point that our model involves signing players with potential and improving them. This is now clearly not happening and confidence is draining. Other than Hogan, who could we realistically sell at a profit? Coaching and motivating players has gone badly wrong somewhere.

Judge will sell at a profit. Woods will sell at a big profit (as other clubs, at least, will be able to see his potential), Bentley will sell at a premium. Colin, Egan, Clarke etc. etc. Think about it a bit.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

The midfield is hideous. It was glaringly obvious before the season started that it lacked steel and pace with a complete overload of number 10's so is it really any surprise that it's the source of most of our issues ? Combine that with a manager who's not currently able to get the best out of them, and struggling to positively affect a game with his substitutions and it doesn't look good.

 

[BurdonBee]

I can only assume that the pre-match instructions were along the lines of "Please don't tackle, give those nice fellas plenty of space and the ball when they ask for it and when they get huffy let them go and score the odd goal or 5, oh and by the way, make sure you hit the one man wall at every free kick and try to hit the first defender at most corners". That was the most abject, dispiriting, awful apology for a Brentford team I have had the misfortune to watch in over 60 years. No creativity, no oomph, 7 fouls - what's going on, at least Beckford and Doyle showed some oomph.

 

[Roving Bee]

So what does our beloved Chairman do? Is making patronising tweets part of his job description? And how much do the club pay him?

You say you have supported the bees since the 1970s and talk of benhams cronies having joined the gpg this month. My friend you are at best disallusion ed as to your status or merely not a supporter at all. If you are, then I am an astronaut on my way to Mars. Mr benham doesn't have cronies only idiots making disparaging comments. If you don't really know what a chairman does look it up in Wikipedia

 

[AB]

Someone else made the point that our model involves signing players with potential and improving them. This is now clearly not happening and confidence is draining. Other than Hogan, who could we realistically sell at a profit? Coaching and motivating players has gone badly wrong somewhere.

This is one of the biggest frustrations and puzzles because part of Smith's inconsistency is that at times he shows glimpses of being focused on player development over the short term vagaries of team results. Which I think is a good thing in the context of the overall model I'd understood the club to be operating.

So we saw with KK emerging late last season as something of the player that was bought rather than being, as several Bees fans have said, one of our worst ever buys. Or before that setting up away at Wednesday to play to Hofmann's purported strengths by giving him two wide players to do the running (an experiment trashed by barbet's harsh sending off). It made some sense of bringing McEachran on as a late sub v Rotherham even though few see him as a game changer super sub. Carefully managing Clarke to let him develop without fear.

But he never sticks to it or gives those players a chance to settle. I wasn't there but it sounds from the reports of the Brum game that we played well in a different formation and were perhaps slightly unfortunate so my heart sank seeing today that all he'd learned from it was that barbet should play LB in a back 4 instead of Bjelland.

I'm not a sawyers boo boy but he is increasingly looking like the one player smith wants to develop but who is, despite talent, I think clearly not the sort of player you can build a team around.

 

[sonnyjim]

I was there and don't disagree with what Banana says. Do you then?

I don't think the question was aimed at you was it ?

 

[GABS]

Had the conversation with friends earlier, how about we "do a Bournemouth" and **** the system?

Yes we may not go up and get points deducted bit we'd have a sh*t hot squad for following season regardless.

 

[Herbert]

I'm glad someone else is now mentioning the Rotherham match. Every time I have expressed frustration at this result, and suggested it's significance, I have been told to snap out of it in no uncertain terms.

Yes. So what about when we ripped apart reading and brighton ? Who are both in the mix at the right end .

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Had the conversation with friends earlier, how about we "do a Bournemouth" and **** the system?

Yes we may not go up and get points deducted bit we'd have a sh*t hot squad for following season regardless.

No idea what this means.

 

[condorman]

The midfield is hideous. It was glaringly obvious before the season started that it lacked steel and pace with a complete overload of number 10's so is it really any surprise that it's the source of most of our issues ? Combine that with a manager who's not currently able to get the best out of them, and struggling to positively affect a game with his substitutions and it doesn't look good.

An overload of number 10s, none of whom have regularly impressed in that position

 

[GABS]

No idea what this means.

They cheated the FFP system and went up.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

The midfield is hideous. It was glaringly obvious before the season started that it lacked steel and pace with a complete overload of number 10's so is it really any surprise that it's the source of most of our issues ? Combine that with a manager who's not currently able to get the best out of them, and struggling to positively affect a game with his substitutions and it doesn't look good.

I am glad you said that Owlsmoor, over the last two months, even with me a bit pissed up, our midfield has looked like, a row of condemned houses.

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

I don't think the question was aimed at you was it ?

Then PM the individual it was aimed for instead of making it a public post.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Had the conversation with friends earlier, how about we "do a Bournemouth" and **** the system?

Yes we may not go up and get points deducted bit we'd have a sh*t hot squad for following season regardless.

I doubt Benham has the resources that Bournemouth had available.

 

[ICANBEEFORMILES]

I think the dressing room lock in after the game was a positive move, unfortunately somebody opened the door and let them all out.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

As somebody reported seeing Nico on the train at 6 PM, they obviously weren't locked in for long.

 

[moribee]

Mac leadership is needed on and off field. Players can do it but need a leader

 

[psg150]

Yes, we have turned in 3 bad performances in the last 4 games but that doesn't mean disaster. It's bang in line with what Walsall fans said about Smiths record with them.

The point about whether our clubs philosophy has shifted is more interesting but also not something to judge or evidence from a short run sample.

Anyhow, it's not yet time for this panic or hysteria.