Enough is Enough
Yes. All the marketing phone calls in the world trying to sell premium seats for 'football experience' will not fill a 20,000 stadium if we are in the third division.
Enough is Enough
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Yes. All the marketing phone calls in the world trying to sell premium seats for 'football experience' will not fill a 20,000 stadium if we are in the third division.
Aussie Bee
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Enough is Enough
KK set up Hogan with so many thru balls at the end of last season I am amazed he can't get on the pitch this season - has smith lost the plot / dressing room?
VIbe needs to be dropped or moved to a position he is comfortable with and FFS get a left back in January.
and while we are at it make Mac captain and give the team some bite!
VIbe needs to be dropped or moved to a position he is comfortable with and FFS get a left back in January.
and while we are at it make Mac captain and give the team some bite!
Aussie Bee
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so,the chairman has a nice day out - before we got smashed - makes a nice twitter comment about his lovely day - and all of a sudden he his a marked man - Jesus Christ - chairman is basically a pr role as,I see it - give him a break
Vid
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Aussie Bee
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Debut1949
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That was not how I saw the game. OK, I know that some of the Birmingham staff were reported as uttering some kind, consolatory platitudes about our performance to someone who they probably perceive as a nice guy and that same guy ran with those platitudes. The facts are that we lost yet another game on our own ground, Birmingham never looked like losing and most of our players did not play anywhere near the level they did on a few occasions in the early part of the season. In that context it may be important to note that McLeod was a very influential player at that time and that the slump has dated from the time that he ceased to be available.
Based on what I saw against Birmingham last week I was not at all surprised that we lost so heavily again at Norwich yesterday. The fact that Norwich also had a dreadful recent record was not much of a straw to grasp at as over the last few seasons we have been the club that specialises in getting other team's seasons back on track and so it proved yet again. It is doubtful whether based on experience, including the match against Birmingham, many travelled to Norwich believing that Brentford would turn in an acceptable performance.
The Pipe
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Going back just a few short weeks and posters were happily stating that some players could play at a much higher level yet here we are and posters are deciding they are not even good enough for the Championship
The actuality is they are somewhere in the middle and accordingly some will play well and others will have massive dips in performance, unfortunately it seems the latter has effected most players.
I would fully agree that the loan market has not bee the success of previous seasons but unfortunately the top teams now want a premium price to send them on loan and an assurance they will play st least 75% of games. Cardiff for instance have paid £3m for a loanee keeper!!! Quite frankly we are shopping in a totally different market
No one In their right minds can be happy st present but some of the reaction on here is cringeworthy. Maybe we have been spoilt in recent seasons and therefore now expect to be top 6, and perhaps some reality needs to be injected.
I also deplore the necessity to try and link poor performances on the pitch with what has been going on off the field, there is no connection beyond the desire to criticise pretty much everything at present
I remain confident we will finish mid table which is about the level of our squad.
The actuality is they are somewhere in the middle and accordingly some will play well and others will have massive dips in performance, unfortunately it seems the latter has effected most players.
I would fully agree that the loan market has not bee the success of previous seasons but unfortunately the top teams now want a premium price to send them on loan and an assurance they will play st least 75% of games. Cardiff for instance have paid £3m for a loanee keeper!!! Quite frankly we are shopping in a totally different market
No one In their right minds can be happy st present but some of the reaction on here is cringeworthy. Maybe we have been spoilt in recent seasons and therefore now expect to be top 6, and perhaps some reality needs to be injected.
I also deplore the necessity to try and link poor performances on the pitch with what has been going on off the field, there is no connection beyond the desire to criticise pretty much everything at present
I remain confident we will finish mid table which is about the level of our squad.
Lush55
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I certainly went there believing we would put in some kind of performance, when the Barclay End sang "you are sh1t" I had to applaud them they were right.
Naaarwich fans after in the pub asking what has happened to us.....embarrassing and still seething on how much money I wasted on watching a team playing for my beeloved Brentford, who looked like they didn't want to bee there.
Man up or ship out!!
Delbee
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Lush55
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Agree we will not go down........and I for one do not expect to bee top 6 , what I do expect is to see a team with some kind of fight in them........Blackburn equalised,our heads dropped and everyone blamed the weather, yesterday they scored and we seemed to hide under a stone, something is fundamentally wrong. I do not mind loosing as long as we can walk away and say "we fought".
Yesterday "we folded"!!
TadB
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Mr Pipe, this is another well thought out and balanced post however to continue the discussion I should like to say I do consider what has been going on off the pitch does have a link to what is happening on the pitch. There have been several good posts that do point out that when we consider what was going on three seasons ago much of what was very good then has gone. Since DS has arrived much has changed for the worst, although to be fair things did change under MD, clearly the team are not as fit as they were, this was indicated by the number of last minute goals scored and the constant pressing for the entire game previously. The style of football has changed completely, we no longer play a fast, quick passing, attacking style and an always pressing game, keeping possession at all costs. Now the most obvious change has been the number of long balls, some will say long passes but I think that on many occasions it is hit and hope. We no longer have a style. It is clear that we are very slow starters, can it be a coincidence that we no longer do an intense warm up prior to the game. Yes, there have been many changes that we can see on the pitch and I can only assume that there have been changes on the training ground. The much vaunted director of football philosophy Pedersen has finally departed to be replaced by KO'C who has no experience at this level, and marking an end to the style of football that we all loved to call the Brentford way. I note that Pedersen stated that he did not believe in loaning players out, and as soon as he left a player went to Sutton on loan. We no longer attract top quality loan players, yes, there now maybe a cost, however it could also be that top clubs no longer see any development prospect for their player playing in our current system . The previous style also attracted many extra supporters and I fear that should the present system continue then we could lose those supporters. If things have changed behind the scenes including the system/style of play coached then the performance on the pitch will change too. It also worries me to see that so many players would appear to out of favour, three Hoffman, Gorgia (gone on loan) and KK. Yes they do not fit in, or maybe not in our current system, maybe maybe not, I do not know, but it worries me. We have all seen a new manager arrive and a previously out of favour player overnight comes good. It is always difficult to criticise and ask questions when we are winning but at times like this people who keep quiet are mobilised to speak out. Some say we have signed lower league players and yes if you sign lower league players then you end up in the lower leagues. True, but the previous Brentford way was to coach them and to allow them to develop in a team who played the right way. The team IMO do not now play the right way, indeed we play in a lower league way and with lower league players (yes young and with prospects) and unless we play at best all we can hope for is a struggle in the bottom half of the Championship. Maybe that is now the club policy - who knows but things have changed that is clear to see.
IslandBee
Now Off-Island Bee
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sonofabee
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TadB
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No, but I assume that he has posted similar. I acknowledged that there are several posts containing similar views. I would have been interested to read your thoughts as I usually enjoy reading post from you. As long as they are not about AM!
sonofabee
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Enough is Enough
Sorry I was being childish as the post was quite lengthy without punctuation.
However you make a lot of good points but I trust in MB for no other reason than he sees what we see and if it isn't working he will change it.
I believe he really likes Dean who is respected, rated and popular in the game but it's his business and if it is at risk he will do what is necessary I have no doubt.
I don't believe he should go yet but obviously concerned with recent results and on occasions our performances. I think he might need some help as think Pedersen going was a big loss and would like to see the quicker passing and high tempo adopted again, just not sure if current squad is capable of it.
Fingers crossed we get two or three victories as a minimum this month, strengthen in January and don't lose Hogan. Rated but raw lower league players will always be the way ahead coupled with the odd foreign gem and Premier loanee, sadly we haven't had a great ROI from our loanees this season so far.
mhead bee
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Crikey it's all kicked off now. Had we not been cheated and ultimately robbed by Birmingham I suppose this thread would be about our inability to challenge for the play offs rather than imminent relegation,
I fully expect us to get out of this mess as we did it twice last season so worrying about going down doesn't stress me at all.
My sadness is that all the incredible innovative things I was reading about this club and the press we were getting made me feel like I suported the best and the most attention drawing club in the world a few years ago. Everyone I met was watching us to see how this incredible experiment was going and how it would turn out, the ground was full of sporting celebs and Natalie was there every game wearing tight jumpers.
We seem to have turned into a club with no DNA anymore, we play industrial football, our players do not excite or play attractive football, we have not a single player who possesses flair and makes your pulse go up. All the last minute winners have gone, the wonderful football has gone, the energy and passion has gone.
This may just be temporary and that is what I hope but to be constantly told that we are a tiny team with a tiny budget and the players we have are all we can afford and the style of football we play is down to only having the players we can afford is a bit saddening. It may be or may not be a fact but it is depressing.
Well, the question is how did mark warburton get us playing the way he did with a smaller budget, how did he get rangers playing that way when we have bought their best player off them? We were told that the DNA runs deep and a switch of manager doesn't change the DNA and the way we use stats to improve every player and every part of their game and get that extra 1-2% out of them was the difference in how we pursued the opposition and kept going for 95 mins. Have we had to cut the cloth to get rid of all these technologies that made us brilliant or does it in reality come far more down to one manager and what he does during the day.
I find it thoroughly depressing to be told that where we are today is where we should be and I should appreciate it, the golden years have gone and we are now in a permanent scrap just to stay where we are with boring players trying to finish just above the bottom 3 to survive just one more year.
I fully expect us to get out of this mess as we did it twice last season so worrying about going down doesn't stress me at all.
My sadness is that all the incredible innovative things I was reading about this club and the press we were getting made me feel like I suported the best and the most attention drawing club in the world a few years ago. Everyone I met was watching us to see how this incredible experiment was going and how it would turn out, the ground was full of sporting celebs and Natalie was there every game wearing tight jumpers.
We seem to have turned into a club with no DNA anymore, we play industrial football, our players do not excite or play attractive football, we have not a single player who possesses flair and makes your pulse go up. All the last minute winners have gone, the wonderful football has gone, the energy and passion has gone.
This may just be temporary and that is what I hope but to be constantly told that we are a tiny team with a tiny budget and the players we have are all we can afford and the style of football we play is down to only having the players we can afford is a bit saddening. It may be or may not be a fact but it is depressing.
Well, the question is how did mark warburton get us playing the way he did with a smaller budget, how did he get rangers playing that way when we have bought their best player off them? We were told that the DNA runs deep and a switch of manager doesn't change the DNA and the way we use stats to improve every player and every part of their game and get that extra 1-2% out of them was the difference in how we pursued the opposition and kept going for 95 mins. Have we had to cut the cloth to get rid of all these technologies that made us brilliant or does it in reality come far more down to one manager and what he does during the day.
I find it thoroughly depressing to be told that where we are today is where we should be and I should appreciate it, the golden years have gone and we are now in a permanent scrap just to stay where we are with boring players trying to finish just above the bottom 3 to survive just one more year.
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aawharris
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Enough is Enough
At least we are doing it in the Championship now , rather than 10 years ago when we were doing it in Leagues 1 and 2.
Guildford Bee
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Agree with most of that. The great experiment seems to be over and despite all the "we have to do things differently" rhetoric from Ankersen, I can't work out how we are any different from any other club other than (justifiably) scrapping the academy.
The Smartodds analytics team has been disbanded and replaced with a traditional head scout whose player recruitment record while manager was questionable as best.
The Head of Philosophy has left and there has been no mention of recruiting a replacement - presumably that role is now defunct.
There is no evidence to support any philosophy or DNA running throughout the club. I wouldn't say we ply industrial football but it's pretty humdrum.
DavidgRushden
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Another good thing about Pipe's post were the nice, short, pleasantly-spaced paragraphs!
Perhaps TadB was being considerate, and trying to save space on the website? :looks:
Downbeat Bee
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Les Beeavinu
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Enough is Enough
Sorry but I'm going to bite on this. When Warburton was here, we had a period when we played absolutely wonderful football but just like every other team that's played football, sometimes it was ordinary, particularly towards the end of that season. All that is happening here is we are having an average season - as some might expect with a club like us in the Championship - yet people are making out as though the world is ending. Why can we not just accept that sometimes, seasons can be a bit dull? I'm sure that there'll be times when it will be ok.
Get yourself on BeesPlayer and watch some of those magical moments from this season - first win at QPR for ever, Brighton's first defeat at home, taking apart play off chasing Reading, taking apart Preston who then went on a run of not losing for weeks after. The players who did that are still here and are good players who need some things to go right for them.
IDontBeeLieveIt
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I think it's a whole lot simpler. We're not doing the basics right.
When you come up against talented opposition who create chances against you through talent it's what you have to expect in this division.
When you come up against opposition and look slow, jaded, and disinterested you know how it's going to turn out.
Both will result in losses but the first is much easier to accept and say "fair enough the best team won / they put in a great performance today". At the moment all too often it's 10 minutes in and there's that familiar depressing feeling where you know it's not going to go well as we're repeatedly beaten to every knock down or second ball, challenges are half hearted, and when we do get the ball there's hardly anyone showing for it to give us options.
This is the part that I think is solvable and could easily make us solid mid-table level at least with the players we have. Problem is I don't know whether Smith will/can do it. I like using the Carsley/Marinus example. With the same players Carsley clearly sorted us out and got us playing like a proper team again.......personally I reckon he'd do a much better job than Smith from what I've seen so far. Shame he didn't appear to want the job.
Les Beeavinu
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That's what a lack of confidence does. Slow to the tackle, hestotant defending, not wanting the ball, not being inventive. That's where we are and we need to give some support to get out of that hole.
I'll Bee Damned
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We do need to support them but the players actually need to lead on this. Compare us with Bournemouth today. I am not talking about the quality of player that costs a fortune but the level of attitude and commitment that costs nothing. We need to see them giving their all for the team, then they will get everything from us in return
Les Beeavinu
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Sorry, from what I've seen at GP, there's plenty in the stands who could up their game as well.
IDontBeeLieveIt
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Admirable as being supportive is, and whilst it won't hurt, it's like p*ssing in the wind really. This has to come either from the players themselves or from the players via the manager's motivational/tactical prowess.
Herbert
Formerly known as newbee79
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So supporting and encouraging the players positively is pointless
Les Beeavinu
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So booing Romaine Sawyers off in our first home defeat of the season when we were in the top 10 didn't hurt? We've barely won since and he has gone into his shell so I reckon there is a connection personally. I think Ryan Woods is going to find it more difficult to turn his form around if he's aware of what people are saying about him. What do you think?
IDontBeeLieveIt
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Completely disagree. Ignoring the fact that I think the majority of the cheers (not boos) were at DS for finally subbing him rather than at the player himself.....I think that he wasn't playing brilliantly before (hence people wanting him off) and it's a poor excuse for the performances. It's not the crowds fault. Same for Woods.
Blaming the crowd for these performances is madness imo.
ruislip bee
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Burton isn't the answer now. He's 40ish and way over the hill. Good on his day though but that day was 10 years ago.
IDontBeeLieveIt
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No, as I said, it won't hurt / might help a bit, but really it's not going to be the answer to poor performances.
Les Beeavinu
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Well that's just up to you then. I'll go with what I believe. I don't know how mentally tough you were in your early twenties so I wonder how you would have coped. These people aren't machines.
IDontBeeLieveIt
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I think you're clutching at straws blaming this. What's the excuse for the performances of the team as a whole (bar Sawyers) who weren't subject to this one moment of cheering?
We're not playing poorly because of crowd noises.
Les Beeavinu
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As I said, I'll leave you to your views. Let's hope they magically find a confidence button amidst the jeers from the terrace.
BedfontRed
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Here we go. If in doubt blame the fans because at the end of the day it's our fault. The 400 or so who went to Norwich hang your heads for such a shameful performance.
Herbert
Formerly known as newbee79
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Yeah . Alright.
Let's just turn up and abuse our players, that will turn it round quicker
IDontBeeLieveIt
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Why are you arguing against things I didn't say. This is mental.
Herbert
Formerly known as newbee79
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If all they're good for is to constantly abuse players, even before a ball is kicked.
Then Yes
Herbert
Formerly known as newbee79
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No, point is being positive, supportive or encouraging means nothing, so let's keep up the abuse instead
IDontBeeLieveIt
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Isleworth_Bee
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Dont think people are saying that. It works both ways. There are times like Norwich where the players were terrible and need to raise their game so theres nothing the fans could do to help. But equally there will be times when the fans can help raise someones game. Moaning and jeers from the terrace will never help. I think thats what Les is getting at. Now is not the time to start berating players who are already low on confidence.
davidccpigeons
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wayfarer172
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This is a good thread, and I AGREE 100% of the comments made by Banana. This is the way I see it, and I'm prepared for sarcastic comments on my views. Bournemouth, who are imo no bigger than us. Today for example their ground was packed with 11,700 ish fans. Not only did they get to the Premier, they are holding their own there. I think I would be right in saying, they have invested in quality players first. Good move because with a successful team, marketing will follow. I sometimes think their are too many chiefs at BFC and not enough Indians. I'd give Mr Smith until January, and see who he brings in. Problem is nobody will want to sign for a club if they think that club is in decline. I'm confident we will stay up, but it won't be easy. I woder if Mr Howe would be interested in joining us. Just a thought like. Mr DEan Smith comes over as a really decent Guy, but without the passion of lets say, Martin Allen.
B2B
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The players are good. It's the squad balance that's lacking.
Enough is Enough
Are You talking Eddie howe or Don howe? Both equally unlikely
sonofabee
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Why would you need much Marketing if the team is playing well and the ground packed.
Bournemouth held their nerve and went for bust.
Matthew was also prepared to fund us but Warburton was worried about harmony so kept everybody happy and we weren't quite good enough.
Sadly the upshot was a major rebuild when we lost players we could no longer afford to keep that we knew might happen hence why Matthew was prepared to gamble but unfortunately his employee wasn't.
