Enough is Enough
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Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
Enough is Enough
Completely agree. That was brilliant. You can't afford to then not turn up at Rotherham and become the only team to gift them three points. Could now haunt us, that one.
Buzzettesfriend
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Enough is Enough
With 5 points from 9 games, at what point do you think we should panic?
Enough is Enough
Panic is rarely constructive.. Generally happens when short term problems obscure the bigger picture and bad decisions are made.
if the issue is that current problems are a symptom of our club moving away from the core beliefs and way of operating that Benham has laid down then let's discuss. I'm sure he is reflecting on that. Panic measures are not needed to deal with a bad run of form, don't forget we had two stinking runs last year.
In the short run, confidence is key. The players are good enough - we've seen that. At the moment they don't have that total belief. You could sense it when we were murdering Brum - no one believed we would do it, even though we so easily could have.
It might sound trite. And it is. But get behind them next week like we haven't in an age.
if the issue is that current problems are a symptom of our club moving away from the core beliefs and way of operating that Benham has laid down then let's discuss. I'm sure he is reflecting on that. Panic measures are not needed to deal with a bad run of form, don't forget we had two stinking runs last year.
In the short run, confidence is key. The players are good enough - we've seen that. At the moment they don't have that total belief. You could sense it when we were murdering Brum - no one believed we would do it, even though we so easily could have.
It might sound trite. And it is. But get behind them next week like we haven't in an age.
sonofabee
Well-known member
Enough is Enough
I just want to read that :
We won't sell Hogan until summer
We are looking to beef up midfield in Jan
We won't sell Hogan until summer
We are looking to beef up midfield in Jan
Enough is Enough
Get behind them next week? Won't happen and we all know it. GP Is like a morgue and has been for some time. I don't see people trying to get behind them for all the messages on here urging it. In fact, it's feckin miserable going to GP at the moment.
Brentford St George
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Enough is Enough
Another striker and a midfielder that scores come goals please !
Everyone is harping on about being too light weight but we simply do not score enough from midfield.
Look at a few years back - Jota, Dallas, Judge , Pritchard even though he wasn't ours and even Douglas chipped in. It says something when Egan has out scored some of the midfielders. Look at the Good Friday massacre at Fulham. All 4 goals were scored from midfield. We do not have players capable of doing that at present i am afraid. The emphasis cannot kept being put on Hogan at present. Vibe and KK are not up to the level and Hoff bless him , a 5 minute cameo every game can hardly be doing his confidence any good ? God forbid that Hogan is sold or injured . I perish the thought.
I want Smith to succeed and we need to turn it around quick . I still have confidence in him to do the job .
Next Saturdays game is huge so lets get behind the team .
Everyone is harping on about being too light weight but we simply do not score enough from midfield.
Look at a few years back - Jota, Dallas, Judge , Pritchard even though he wasn't ours and even Douglas chipped in. It says something when Egan has out scored some of the midfielders. Look at the Good Friday massacre at Fulham. All 4 goals were scored from midfield. We do not have players capable of doing that at present i am afraid. The emphasis cannot kept being put on Hogan at present. Vibe and KK are not up to the level and Hoff bless him , a 5 minute cameo every game can hardly be doing his confidence any good ? God forbid that Hogan is sold or injured . I perish the thought.
I want Smith to succeed and we need to turn it around quick . I still have confidence in him to do the job .
Next Saturdays game is huge so lets get behind the team .
opinions5u
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sonofabee
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Enough is Enough
Sorry mate, that's a no from me but it does put everything in perspective. Bees have the ability to change our fortunes and unsure Oldham to the same extent.
Bees fans have been spoilt rotten and never enjoyed more success and quality football in my lifetime than in the last 5 years so on that front we shouldn't be complaining, maybe we should make everyone read your posts on What's wrong with me?
Good luck friend
Delbee
Well-known member
Enough is Enough
What does Smith do
A) get the players in for training today and no rest day on Wednesday?
B) tell the players to stay away till Wednesday?
A) get the players in for training today and no rest day on Wednesday?
B) tell the players to stay away till Wednesday?
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Enough is Enough
Why would they stay away? It's their highly paid job to put things right and I don't know about you but in my working life, if things aren't going well I work harder.
Sheerwater Bee
Never, ever, back down
sonofabee
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Enough is Enough
He obviously missed the Everitt, Downes and Butcher tenures.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Enough is Enough
When you look at Pritchard yesterday, it's clear that we have been badly let down in the loan market this year. We're now in December and Kaikai has had no impact and Elder has been unfortunate. Those two need to go back on Jan 1st and we have to get better. The new rules around emergency loans have hit us as well because any other season would have seen us get someone through the door in the last month.
stevil
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Guildford Bee
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Buzzettesfriend
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Enough is Enough
Or C: Give the players today and Wednesday off in the belief that the 'chat' after yesterday's game has given them plenty to think about.
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
Enough is Enough
Or D: next international break send them off on work placements into offices and warehouses so they can begin to appreciate their privileged status. Those that get sent to the farm can count chickens. Oh, and pay them the appropriate wages for the week.
Buzzettesfriend
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Enough is Enough
Yes but of all 4 suggestions, that is the one that won't happen, rightly or wrongly.
IDontBeeLieveIt
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hanworthbee
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Enough is Enough
you cd tell elder wasn't up to scratch from the first couple of games.we've lost canos swift and judge,must have been 30 goals there and replaced them with sawyers who's only scored about 15 career goals.
this season's recruitment has been poor.loads of players play the same position like kk josh nico and woods, we're overloaded in central defence and we're wasting valuable budget on ageing players like Sam and Alan mac
Enough is Enough
Totally correct, but is it DS or DoF who are responsible. I find the lack of communication from the DoF very poor at present, and contributes to the fans feeling not so involved over the last 18 months. It not all down to DS, other need. To stand and be responsible.
aawharris
Doesn't do well with idiots.
Enough is Enough
I don't think we would have the same team if we didn't go up.
Not a very well thought out post
I'll Bee Damned
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Enough is Enough
Going back to Banana's original point, I think one of the alarming denominators is the apparent disregard for the fans of this great club.
Whichever of the recent off pitch issues you choose, the current and long standing fan has been sidelined, overlooked or treated with disdain, contempt and very much taken for granted.
However, this attitude now extends to the playing and coaching staff. They both badly let fans down yesterday and I have yet to see or hear, and I've listened to DS's post match interview twice, anything that resembles an apology or guarantee to us fans that we won't be treated like that again. Not even recognition that fans might, understandably, be disgruntled by the current state of affairs on the pitch.
What we collectively sink into the club in terms of emotion, money and time is not currently anywhere near being repaid in kind.
If things don't change they will stay the same. The club seem entrenched in their current approach to fans and, worryingly, I don't see where that change is coming from at the moment.
Whichever of the recent off pitch issues you choose, the current and long standing fan has been sidelined, overlooked or treated with disdain, contempt and very much taken for granted.
However, this attitude now extends to the playing and coaching staff. They both badly let fans down yesterday and I have yet to see or hear, and I've listened to DS's post match interview twice, anything that resembles an apology or guarantee to us fans that we won't be treated like that again. Not even recognition that fans might, understandably, be disgruntled by the current state of affairs on the pitch.
What we collectively sink into the club in terms of emotion, money and time is not currently anywhere near being repaid in kind.
If things don't change they will stay the same. The club seem entrenched in their current approach to fans and, worryingly, I don't see where that change is coming from at the moment.
Tom the bee
Pessimistic Optimist
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Enough is Enough
Sorry, to be clear, I am not pointing any fingers and don't intend to. Kaikai was pretty unanimously welcomed and we would have had every confidence that Elder would be decent They have both disappointed.
Enough is Enough
Regarding the need for a defensive midfielder, we were linked with George Evans who was deemed to be exactly what we needed but unfortunately chose Reading over us.
What I find strange (unless someone corrects me) is that we haven't been linked with a defensive midfielder since then, yet it stands out like a sore thumb that this is prority
GP200
Voice of the mysterons...
Les Beeavinu
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Owlsmoor_Bee
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Enough is Enough
But it doesn't immediately appear to me that that position has been identified as a priority. It was IMO, one of the very first which needed filling in the close season. I just think recruitment in general over the past two seasons has been such a hotch potch. Grossly overloaded in some positions, lacking in pace generally and reliant on a single striker with a poor injury record.
Enough is Enough
Oh yeah I forgot him. Wonder if we'll have another go in January?
Enough is Enough
This is spot on IMO. It's the equivalent of going into Primark needing a jumper not finding a suitable one so you buy a pair of trousers instead even though you have many already. The jumper is the defensive midfielder and the pair of trousers is Sawyers (although I don't think he is a bad player)
I'll Bee Damned
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Full Metal Jacket
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Enough is Enough
Couldn't agree more. The last three transfer windows have seen us acquire a few gems (such as Bentley and Colin), a rather larger number of duds (such as Hofmann, Kerschbaumer and Gogia) and an even bigger number of maybes/hopefuls (such as Woods, Sawyers and Vibe). The overall quality is fairly poor. Where recruitment has been unsuccessful it has saddled us with expensive players on long contracts who will be hard to move on.
More worrying still is the lack of any coherent plan as to the shape and balance of the whole squad. Players seem to have been signed ad hoc on the basis of future resale value rather than their immediate value to the squad. I can see the point of that in some ways, naturally, but it has produced a very unbalanced squad (too many inexperienced players and too many players in the same positions).
I suspect that this all stems from our structure, namely the "transfer committee" led by the DoFs. I suggest that Smith be given overall responsibility for recruitment in January so that a single (footballing) brain guides our strategy. I'm not saying that we should give him the chequebook and stand back - his proposals would still be subject to approval by the DoFs and ultimately of course by the owner (who owns the chequebook!) - but I don't see a committee being capable of solving our problems.
AB
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Enough is Enough
No. No. No.
It is ludicrous to point at hof, KK (both barely played), gogia (doing well in German 2nd div), Vibe (14 goals last season) and ignore the loads of excellent players we've signed in recent years to conclude that Smith, whose only definite influence on signings is likely to have been on sawyers & Henry, should be given the power to drive recruitment. Most were supportive of the club not ceding to this demand from Warburton and unlike Smith he'd actually had a big say in putting together the team.
Giving Smith more powers now is barely a better option than installing Andy Scott as manager again.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Tom the bee
Pessimistic Optimist
Tom the bee
Pessimistic Optimist
Enough is Enough
What we need:
-A Pritchard/Forshaw/Douglas replacement in midfield, ideally also a return of Jota
-The return of Alan Mac
-A suitable striker to join Hogan (assuming he stays)
Burton is now huge and the result may set precedent for the rest of December
-A Pritchard/Forshaw/Douglas replacement in midfield, ideally also a return of Jota
-The return of Alan Mac
-A suitable striker to join Hogan (assuming he stays)
Burton is now huge and the result may set precedent for the rest of December
brooks
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Full Metal Jacket
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Enough is Enough
Is that because of an aversion to Smith or to the idea of putting recruitment in the hands of a single footballing brain?
I could understand the former. But the so-called transfer committee" has hardly been a rip-roaring success has it?
Full Metal Jacket
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Easter 1959
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Enough is Enough
Not entirely true to say that Elder has disappointed, at least yet IMO; been out whilst things have gone down hill and we wouldn't have had this thread at all in the aftermath of the QPR game; or for that matter after Birmingham a week ago.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Enough is Enough
When I mean disappointed, I don't mean football wise. It's not his fault he got injured but the fact that he sh means that he has been a waste of a loan.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Enough is Enough
I just don't see the point in putting such an important role in the hands of one person who will inevitably have limited resources available to him. I think our transfers have been pretty good to to be honest - Colin, Bentley, Woods, Hogan, Egan have all been ok haven't they?
redsbee
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IslandBee
Now Off-Island Bee
Enough is Enough
I think the point about defensive midfield is spot on and one that many of use have been making for a very long time. However, I think the more general criticism of recruitment is overstated. Are we really 'grossly overloaded in some positions'? Personally, I like the fact we have four good quality CBs and think we could make good use of these if we persisted with three at the back. We perhaps have one too many central midfelders, but that is bound to happen occasionally. As for the single striker and lack of pace, I very much doubt we find ourselves in this situation because of the deliberate intentions of the recruiters. They have tried to recruit strikers, but we all know how difficult it is to get good ones for a price we can afford, so we have ended up with Vibe and Hoff. Pace is an issue, but I imagine it was hoped that Kaikai could deliver that. So, sure, recruitment has not been ideal, but I think this is manly down to the constraint under which we operate. And, actually, I still think we are only a couple of (experienced) players away from being a good side.
IslandBee
Now Off-Island Bee
Enough is Enough
I would not be inclined to abandon a long-term strategy, designed to enable us to punch about our financial weight on the player front, on the basis of short-term problems. I would want much more evidence that it has not worked than we have at present and, much more importantly, I am pretty sure that will also be MB's position.
Delbee
Well-known member
Enough is Enough
Do people have faith in our Chief Scout (Andy Scott)unearthing the players we require? I live in hope!
hanworthbee
Well-known member
Enough is Enough
imo we have one to many CB, to many CM Woods, Sawyers, Josh, Nico, Alan Mac, KK all want to play in the same positions..add to that Saunders shouldn't have been given a contract I make that atleast 4 players in midfield and defence we could be saving money on, add Hoff to that list, Elder and Kaikai we could have plenty of scope to get some decent squad members in who can actually help us