Enough is Enough

[Tom the bee]

Maybe Geoffrey?

He's dead

 

[Easter 1959]

Well, the question is how did mark warburton get us playing the way he did with a smaller budget

Because he had an attacking midfield of Judge, Pritchard and Jota . . . . . . . .

 

[wanderer paul]

What did he tweet after the match?

"Thank god that's over. Now proper football. Come on you gunners. I'm a gooner don't you know......Do you like my scarf?" - adds picture of himself wearing a half and half Arsenal/West Ham scarf........

The above is not true, but it could quite well have been.

 

[davewfilms]

does appear the footballing side of the club has gone backwards since mark warburton and his management team left the club as they seemed far better at player recruitment than our current dofs also the football and the results were far superior under mr warburton.Maybe time to look at the current structure as it doesn't seem to be working and if allowed to carry on we will be looking at league one football next season.

 

[Manchester_Bee]

We could be (big swing in gd required) in the bottom 3 by 5 on Saturday. Christmas we could be truly adrift. Something needs to happen or we could be facing a fight for survival for the rest of the season.

 

[sonofabee]

We could be (big swing in gd required) in the bottom 3 by 5 on Saturday. Christmas we could be truly adrift. Something needs to happen or we could be facing a fight for survival for the rest of the season.

Nothing like a positive attitude and that is nothing like a positive attitude.

 

[Tom the bee]

Nothing like a positive attitude and that is nothing like a positive attitude.

He is being objective and stating facts to be fair. What he says is true. We need to win on Sat

 

[I'll Bee Damned]

Sorry, from what I've seen at GP, there's plenty in the stands who could up their game as well.

I couldn't agree more Les. I hate to hear booing and vitriolic abuse thrown at our own players and I would never join in with it. Others feel that they've paid their money and should be allowed to react how they wish. Whilst I disagree with this attitude I believe even those people would get behind a player, however they are playing, if that player appeared to be as committed as he possibly could be on the pitch. That appears to be lacking currently and is something the players themselves, and the manager, can change.

 

[sonofabee]

He is being objective and stating facts to be fair. What he says is true. We need to win on Sat

Thank you for stating the bloody obvious, guess what if we lose every game this season we're down.
How about stating it's been grim of late but this team has beaten the likes of Brighton and Reading playing great football so time to get back on track starting Saturday?

 

[The Pipe]

We could be (big swing in gd required) in the bottom 3 by 5 on Saturday. Christmas we could be truly adrift. Something needs to happen or we could be facing a fight for survival for the rest of the season.

Of course, conversely we could win Saturday have a little run of good results and be just outside the playoffs by Christmas

It's a very tough league but a few wins and you shoot up whereas the run like the one we are on and you plummet like a stone.

Guess depends whether your glass is half full or half empty!!!????

 

[Herbert]

does appear the footballing side of the club has gone backwards since mark warburton and his management team left the club as they seemed far better at player recruitment than our current dofs also the football and the results were far superior under mr warburton.Maybe time to look at the current structure as it doesn't seem to be working and if allowed to carry on we will be looking at league one football next season.

You mean since Mark Warburton disrupted everything ? Yes your right

 

[Herbert]

He is being objective and stating facts to be fair. What he says is true. We need to win on Sat

The same facts that were stated last season before we finished 9th

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

Agree with most of that. The great experiment seems to be over and despite all the "we have to do things differently" rhetoric from Ankersen, I can't work out how we are any different from any other club other than (justifiably) scrapping the academy.

The Smartodds analytics team has been disbanded and replaced with a traditional head scout whose player recruitment record while manager was questionable as best.

The Head of Philosophy has left and there has been no mention of recruiting a replacement - presumably that role is now defunct.

There is no evidence to support any philosophy or DNA running throughout the club. I wouldn't say we ply industrial football but it's pretty humdrum.

I didn't know that the analytics team had been disbanded. That passed without much comment given the enormous fanfare with which it was introduced! If that means the end of statistical analysis in recruitment then that seems a monumental climbdown. We've lurched from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye!

I agree with all your other comments. I can't see anything particularly innovative or controversial about what we're doing now. (Not necessarily a bad thing - many of the "innovations" looked half-baked to me). We've gone back to being a normal football club, more or less.

 

[wanderer paul]

I didn't know that the analytics team had been disbanded. That passed without much comment given the enormous fanfare with which it was introduced! If that means the end of statistical analysis in recruitment then that seems a monumental climbdown. We've lurched from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye!

I agree with all your other comments. I can't see anything particularly innovative or controversial about what we're doing now. (Not necessarily a bad thing - many of the "innovations" looked half-baked to me). We've gone back to being a normal football club, more or less.

There was a discussion on the analytical team going, https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121012

 

[Tom the bee]

Thank you for stating the bloody obvious, guess what if we lose every game this season we're down.
How about stating it's been grim of late but this team has beaten the likes of Brighton and Reading playing great football so time to get back on track starting Saturday?

Yeah, but it's good to be realistic and have a reality check of what is going on. Nothing to do with negative/positive attitudes

 

[finsbury_bee]

does appear the footballing side of the club has gone backwards since mark warburton and his management team left the club as they seemed far better at player recruitment than our current dofs also the football and the results were far superior under mr warburton.Maybe time to look at the current structure as it doesn't seem to be working and if allowed to carry on we will be looking at league one football next season.

Ask a Rangers fan what they think of MW's recruitment. Been very poor.

 

[brooks]

We could be (big swing in gd required) in the bottom 3 by 5 on Saturday. Christmas we could be truly adrift. Something needs to happen or we could be facing a fight for survival for the rest of the season.

It only matters over the course of a season. Some clubs aren't equipped to turn things around, some are. The former drift towards the bottom, the latter climb to safety. I think we are one of the latter.

 

[bees66]

Ask a Rangers fan what they think of MW's recruitment. Been very poor.

and they are 2nd? seems like they are deluded..

 

[AB]

Would you agree with my general point if it were a new manager then?

No. The large number of excellent players who we have recruited at low cost, got the benefit of as they developed and then sold on at large profit shows that the system works or at least can and has worked. That we seem to have a less good current hit rate is neither here nor there in the overall scheme of things and I'm not sure that even the players who some are calling duds are actually no good because they've either not been given a chance or have in the past with us shown their quality but for some reason are not now.

A different manager, or Smith having given himself (or been given and taken on board) a serious talking to, might be the answer, but ditching the recruitment policy which has had a large part in taking us up to this division is not.

 

[westy]

what will happen if we sell Hogan in Jan? will there be a complete meltdown?

I would say Hogan is nailed on to leave in January, his stock is high and his goals could get a team promoted to the Premiership or keep a failing premier league team up.

If we hold on to him until the end of the season, he'll only have a year left on his deal which will mean his price will go down. Teams are desperate for goals in Jan.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I didn't know that the analytics team had been disbanded. That passed without much comment given the enormous fanfare with which it was introduced! If that means the end of statistical analysis in recruitment then that seems a monumental climbdown. We've lurched from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye!

I agree with all your other comments. I can't see anything particularly innovative or controversial about what we're doing now. (Not necessarily a bad thing - many of the "innovations" looked half-baked to me). We've gone back to being a normal football club, more or less.

There was a discussion on the analytical team going, https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121012

Weren't those chaps brought in in addition to the Smartodds analysts? I think Phil Giles still has smartodds data at his disposal.

 

[sonofabee]

Yeah, but it's good to be realistic and have a reality check of what is going on. Nothing to do with negative/positive attitudes

Do you not think that every player knows we have only taken 5 points from last 27?
Do you not think they are reminded of what's expected every day at training?
Last thing we need is doom and gloom but no solutions being offered. Yes it's worrying but no way is it make or break this weekend although I will be concerned if we don't get 3 points because we need to beat those around us.

 

[Buzzettesfriend]

I will be concerned if we don't get 3 points because we need to beat those around us.

This is the biggest worry for me. Lost to Rotherham, lost to Blackburn, lost to Wolves, failed to beat Wigan at home. These are the results that could really hurt us and we need to win in Saturday, and if we don't I would expect MB will be mightily concerned.

 

[Balders Bee]

I would say Hogan is nailed on to leave in January, his stock is high and his goals could get a team promoted to the Premiership or keep a failing premier league team up.

If we hold on to him until the end of the season, he'll only have a year left on his deal which will mean his price will go down. Teams are desperate for goals in Jan.

You are probably right. If someone does come in with silly money the club cannot turn down it is a huge gamble that we could fill the void to find a replacement with to take up the mantle and score enough goals to keep us in the championship this year. I know a few fringe Premiership youngsters have been touted around as loanees but it is a huge ask to expect inexperienced youngsters to come in and do the business in a struggling team.

 

[nocoat]

Don Howe would be a miracle

I realised this, and put the likelihood on a par. It was just a ridiculous suggestion.

 

[King Bee]

Weren't those chaps brought in in addition to the Smartodds analysts? I think Phil Giles still has smartodds data at his disposal.

Yes, and yes. I had the pleasure of visiting Smartodds a few months back. The data/analytics team they have at their disposal is impressive.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

No. The large number of excellent players who we have recruited at low cost, got the benefit of as they developed and then sold on at large profit shows that the system works or at least can and has worked. That we seem to have a less good current hit rate is neither here nor there in the overall scheme of things and I'm not sure that even the players who some are calling duds are actually no good because they've either not been given a chance or have in the past with us shown their quality but for some reason are not now.

A different manager, or Smith having given himself (or been given and taken on board) a serious talking to, might be the answer, but ditching the recruitment policy which has had a large part in taking us up to this division is not.

Worth pointing out that most (all?) of those that have been resold at a profit were signed by the previous regime (Odubajo, Gray, Tarkowski, Bidwell, Button, Diagouraga, Dallas). Hogan would also fall into that category. The "transfer committee" has yet to trouble the scorer in terms of resale revenue. (I would concede that it might eventually do so in the cases of Bentley and Colin).

Incidentally, I don't want to throw away the whole recruitment policy. I want to give it greater coherence so that we get a more balanced squad - with players that complement each other and fit into a system. At present we've got a bag of nails. The way to do this, as I see it, is to put an intelligent footballing man in control (subject to a few obvious constraints). We can debate whether Smith is the right man to fill that role but, if he isn't, then it would bring into question whether he's the right man, period.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

No. The large number of excellent players who we have recruited at low cost, got the benefit of as they developed and then sold on at large profit shows that the system works or at least can and has worked. That we seem to have a less good current hit rate is neither here nor there in the overall scheme of things and I'm not sure that even the players who some are calling duds are actually no good because they've either not been given a chance or have in the past with us shown their quality but for some reason are not now.

A different manager, or Smith having given himself (or been given and taken on board) a serious talking to, might be the answer, but ditching the recruitment policy which has had a large part in taking us up to this division is not.

Statistical analysis of players and performance is the new normal of course.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Worth pointing out that most (all?) of those that have been resold at a profit were signed by the previous regime (Odubajo, Gray, Tarkowski, Bidwell, Button, Diagouraga, Dallas). Hogan would also fall into that category. The "transfer committee" has yet to trouble the scorer in terms of resale revenue. (I would concede that it might eventually do so in the cases of Bentley and Colin).

Incidentally, I don't want to throw away the whole recruitment policy. I want to give it greater coherence so that we get a more balanced squad - with players that complement each other and fit into a system. At present we've got a bag of nails. The way to do this, as I see it, is to put an intelligent footballing man in control (subject to a few obvious constraints). We can debate whether Smith is the right man to fill that role but, if he isn't, then it would bring into question whether he's the right man, period.

Sorry, what? How about Odubajo, Gray, Tarkowski (the bulk of our re-sales)?

 

[Herbert]

Ask a Rangers fan what they think of MW's recruitment. Been very poor.

And his tactics

 

[mhead bee]

Sorry but I'm going to bite on this. When Warburton was here, we had a period when we played absolutely wonderful football but just like every other team that's played football, sometimes it was ordinary, particularly towards the end of that season. All that is happening here is we are having an average season - as some might expect with a club like us in the Championship - yet people are making out as though the word is ending. Why can we not just accept that sometimes, seasons can be a bit dull? I'm sure that there'll be times when it will be ok.

Get yourself on BeesPlayer and watch some of those magical moments from this season - first win at QPR for ever, Brighton's first defeat at home, taking apart play off chasing Reading, taking apart Preston who then went on a run of not losing for weeks after. The players who did that are still here and are good players who need some things to go right for them.

Didn't realise there was anything to bite.

I agree with all that. I am not calling for warburton back and have firmly sat on the MB side and always will but the point I am making is that we always looked prepared and hungry 2 years ago, we all knew exactly how we played. Even Ollie said we were an immaculately drilled team and every body knew when to go, when to stay and how to react to all situations and we were a nightmare to play against. This was the Brentford dna that ran right through the club. Right now we do not play the same way, far from it. It is not exciting or fun, it is drab and without judge we have nobody who looks like they can pull a surprise out of the hat.

Sure, we can blame the players and admit we haven't got the right people in to play that way but from where I sit I am lot convinced we are even trying that hard and have probabaly only done so two or three times under smith.

The simple question is have we been forced to change our philosophy or is the man in charge incapable of seeing it through.

 

[mhead bee]

Worth pointing out that most (all?) of those that have been resold at a profit were signed by the previous regime .

Who was the previous regime?

We are told we have always used stats and traditional methods and we did before warburton gate as well. Nothing should change there.

We have made signings since then that will go at a profit, woods, Egan, Bentley, colin, barbet and Henry if he is half what we are told his is will all go for a song when the time comes.

 

[mhead bee]

Completely disagree. Ignoring the fact that I think the majority of the cheers (not boos) were at DS for finally subbing him rather than at the player himself.....I think that he wasn't playing brilliantly before (hence people wanting him off) and it's a poor excuse for the performances. It's not the crowds fault. Same for Woods.
Blaming the crowd for these performances is madness imo.

And he did have his best game of the season at qpr right after that.

 

[wibs]

I cant work out what has happened to teh icnredible Ryan Woods who Villa fans were raving about at their place a couple of months ago to teh one we are seeing now

How has that happened?

Was that a freak performance and this is his real level, has Smith coached the natural ability out of his game, has Woods got complacent. I have no idea but it is rare to see such a tailing off in performance

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

I cant work out what has happened to teh icnredible Ryan Woods who Villa fans were raving about at their place a couple of months ago to teh one we are seeing now

How has that happened?

Was that a freak performance and this is his real level, has Smith coached the natural ability out of his game, has Woods got complacent. I have no idea but it is rare to see such a tailing off in performance

I think Woods looks good when we're playing well as a team and he's got the time and space to play his passing game. When things aren't going as well, I don't think he's a brilliant defensive holding player, so doesn't look so impressive.

It's why I hope that we consider Macca playing behind him and Yennaris as I think it might give them more licence to create and link play which they're both good at in different ways.

 

[Judio1999]

At least we had a great Friday night at Loftus Road !!
Just need a couple of wins and all will be well....

 

[jlove]

I think Woods looks good when we're playing well as a team and he's got the time and space to play his passing game. When things aren't going as well, I don't think he's a brilliant defensive holding player, so doesn't look so impressive.

It's why I hope that we consider Macca playing behind him and Yennaris as I think it might give them more licence to create and link play which they're both good at in different ways.

McCormack is not a defensive holding player and, if anything, Nico should be in that position; he's the most mobile, reads the game and is the better defender. McCormack is better driving forward.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

McCormack is not a defensive holding player and, if anything, Nico should be in that position; he's the most mobile, reads the game and is the better defender. McCormack is better driving forward.

It's been mentioned ...... lol

 

[jlove]

It's been mentioned ...... lol

... more than once! McCormack is yet another Brentford player who gets better the less he plays; he's got to cult status now (not a spelling error).

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

McCormack is not a defensive holding player and, if anything, Nico should be in that position; he's the most mobile, reads the game and is the better defender. McCormack is better driving forward.

I disagree (well I agree Macca is decent driving forward - but that's no different to Nico - who's better in and around the box and so I want him further forward).

... more than once! McCormack is yet another Brentford player who gets better the less he plays; he's got to cult status now (not a spelling error).

Nonsense. People just have short memories or don't realise how useful McCormack was for us. From half the posts on here you'd think he's some rubbish Sunday league player. I remember when everyone was saying Yennaris was rubbish and I spent time arguing he was being massively slated unduely. This is much the same.

 

[andyrew]

Nico, Macca and Josh to dig us out of this hole. Give Carrot Top a break. It's a tough division. Buckle up!

 

[Lush55]

Opening up here to get shot down........BUT!
How about McCormack and Bjelland in front of a back 3 of Dean, Egan, Barbie

Then Collin, Woods, Sawyers
KK
Hogan

Just a thought, it would certainly strengthen midfield.
Or am I still suffering from Saturday.......maybee!!

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Opening up here to get shot down........BUT!
How about McCormack and Bjelland in front of a back 3 of Dean, Egan, Barbie

Then Collin, Woods, Sawyers
KK
Hogan

Just a thought, it would certainly strengthen midfield.
Or am I still suffering from Saturday.......maybee!!

I'm not confident in Barbet at CB. Seems to have too many mistakes in him. Also you'd probably have to play Field not Sawyers as the left wing back.

 

[TomoBee]

When's the next forum scheduled for?

 

[Lush55]

I'm not confident in Barbet at CB. Seems to have too many mistakes in him. Also you'd probably have to play Field not Sawyers as the left wing back.

Go along with you on that........main thing for me is that McCormack goes forward Bjelland holds or visa versa, it allows the other 3 to move forward also in support to Hogan,if played right there would always be cover in the midfield, especially with 2 hard gits.
What I don't understand is why we are not moving up the pitch together,there are always holes with Hogan isolated.
Naaarwich always had a runner,either onto the ball or off it.
Pritchard always had an outlet for a pass.

 

[mhead bee]

... more than once! McCormack is yet another Brentford player who gets better the less he plays; he's got to cult status now (not a spelling error).

Not strictly true. When he came back from injury twice last season we embarked on our winning runs which kept us up. Since he has been injured and banned we haven't won a game again.

 

[shouldbee]

I'm not confident in Barbet at CB. Seems to have too many mistakes in him. Also you'd probably have to play Field not Sawyers as the left wing back.

Barbet IS a centre back. He and Harlee were rock sold before Egan arrived !

 

[Holysmit]

Barbet IS a centre back. He and Harlee were rock sold before Egan arrived !

Out of interest how many clean sheets did they keep as a pair?

They didn't do bad but I never thought they were rock solid and off the 3 Egan is the best player.

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Barbet IS a centre back. He and Harlee were rock sold before Egan arrived !

I know he's a CB but personally he's the ropiest out of the four imo. I'm not saying rubbish or no potential just to be clear. Just think he's adapting to to the physicality of this league and isn't fully there yet - also has the tendency to play a wonky/dangerous pass unnecessarily. So would have the others above him every time personally.

 

[LostBee]

Enough is enough is enough already...